Fr Browne's photo of an elderly couple

  • Thread starter Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme
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Gavin Murphy

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M and others,

I don't have the O'Donnell book, altho I have looked it over and think it is v. good. So I can't help you at the moment. Is the pic in another book?

Pls. advise.

Mike, pls. e-mail me on another matter on [email protected] Thanx.

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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

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Dan:
It's intersting about the three men standing behind Jack O'Dell. If the man on the right is Major Archie Butt and the man on the left is Francis Millet, could the middle one be their mutual friend Clarence Moore?

If the elderly couple was not a "couple" then the man could be somebody like William A. Walker or John Montgomery Smart.

Ben
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

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Hi Michael F,
I wouldn't want to steal any of your own research but is there any way I could get hold of photos of The Silveys, William Augustus Spencer or the Taussigs. i.e is there a site on line..newspapers etc. It's just that I would love to know what all these people I spend so much time researching look like.
Michael P, can I ask you the same question about Fred Sutton?
Regards
Ben
 

Mike Poirier

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Dec 12, 1999
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Mike F
This is what Harper said, " I had been kept in my stateroom by tonsilitis ever since coming aboard "
To me that implies he never or very rarely left his cabin.
Mike H
I've seen pictures of both Clara and Charles Hays and they look decidely heavyset compared to the couple on deck. Perhaps Alan Hustak could help us if you want to pursue that angle.
Ben
The picture I have of Sutton comes from the Commutator. 1988 issue I believe where they had all the headlines from the major newspapers. And one of them had his picture and it looks very similar to the one O'Donnell took.
 
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Edmund Turner

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I've been thinking there is always the possibility that the women in the photograph could be a first class servant/companion to one of the well to do families.
 
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Edmund Turner

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She dosen't particularly look like a first class lady either,more second in my opinion. Also I can't really see Father Browne asking her , her social position.
 
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Edmund Turner

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Possibly she is a Governess maybe Elizabeth Shutes or Grace Bowen, I have never seen pictures of either of them.
 
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Daniel Rosenshine

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Thought I'd say something and hope that this time my message would not be deleted! :)

Does anyone think that the man from Browne's photo looks like the man from Blackmarr's Carpathia photo, sitting next to the Harders, the woman facing the Harders may be the woman on Brown'e photo as well, but I'm not sure about that. The man does bear resemblance to Browne's photo, ear and nose shape seem to be similar.

I understand now why the woman facing the Harders is often captioned to be Beckwith. In Blackmarr's scrapbook, the photo next to the Carpathia Harder photo is of Mrs. Beckwith, wearing a coat, so I guess people jumped to conclusions about the woman facing the Harders, also wearing a coat. However she is captioned as Mrs. W. telling her story (or something to that affect).

Daniel.
 
Dec 12, 1999
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Hi Daniel,

Funny that you should mention the similarity between the gentleman in the Father Browne photo and the picture of the gentleman sitting to the left of the Harders on the Carpathia. I suspected that they were the same person because they looked so much alike - which was why I suggested the possibility of it being Henry Sleeper Harper. He is of the very few first-class men that I have not seen a picture of.

In the Harder picture, the other fellow sitting with the man in question has never been positively identified either. He may have been one of the department store buyers but he bears no resemblance to Calderhead, Flynn, Silverthorne or McGough. The image is not too clear so it is difficult to say.

Regards,

Mike Findlay
 
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Daniel Rosenshine

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Hi Michael,

I remember ages ago when I thought the couple on deck were the Carters, I too noticed the similarity between the man on the Carpathia photo.

Then Sloper's account came to mind, when Sloper tells that Mr. Carter and himself conversed ... see the coat (that 'Carter' is sitting on), also mentioned in the account. So I presumed the other man could have possibly been Sloper.

But as you say the gentleman on deck does not look like Carter.

If the man on Carpathia is the same man as on the Titanic, then we ONLY have 54 suspects, already we can rule out a few. Who could the Carpathia man be, even if he is not the gentleman from the photo on the deck of Titanic?

Daniel.

As an aside, the reason I thought that the man on the deck of Titanic was Carter, is due to a photo from the Illustrated London News, where Carter is shown to have a beard and is somewhat oldish looking. However, Carter was 36. Perhaps it’s another ‘Carter’ and the picture is (as many others) wrongly captioned, or more likely it’s the wrong picture for the right caption.
 

Senan Molony

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Make your mind up time.



Sorry the image of Dr Arthur Jackson Brewe turned out small. It's taken from this larger picture of him and Philadelphia companions on camels at the Sphinx at Giza.



I think Brewe has the same beard, shape of face, build and flat cap (!) as Fr Browne's mystery passenger.

Senan
 

Senan Molony

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Okay so there was something wrong - the system rushed away from me. Come back Phil!!



Brewe is on camelback to the extreme right of this picture:
 

Senan Molony

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Curses and deletable expletives...

I think the problem was that the internet traffic was too heavy. The posts disappeared without the 'browse' prompt for uploading.

You will just have to imagine how closely the two men resemble each other...

The Sphinx looked well too.
 

Senan Molony

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Jun 28, 1998
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I hope Phil notices all these dumb boxes. I would get rid of these posts if I could, but there's no "delete post" facility when one tries to edit what's already uploaded.

How about it Phil? We ought to be able to take back inadvertent mistakes in spelling, text or formatting - by killing our last outpouring.

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Dec 12, 1999
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Senan, Phil,

I've been having the same problem with uploading. I thought it was my computer, which has been kinda slow lately, but maybe it's ET. Instead of uploading, I ended up inserting the site address to San Francisco Titanica pictures, directly. Then, some of the members, like Hermann Soldner, for some reason couldn't get through to the site address. By the way, some weeks ago I tried to update the "Links" description for my site on ET but nothing happened. I've added a lot of new stuff on Washington Dodge. It might amount to enough to put together an article for ET, or a bio.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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I've been having some problems with links myself. After I corrected one to a site called The White Star Liners OLYMPIC and TITANIC, it still wouldn't link through even thoug I triple checked the URL to make sure I got it right.

Server problems maybe?

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

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I have seen the picture of Dr. Brewe and although the quality is poor, he does indeed bear a striking resemblance to Fr. Browne's man.
If we're going to be petty, you could say that Brewe's beard is more of the "imperial" style (only just discernable!) and that Fr. Browne's man is heavier set face-wise, but as I mentioned to Senan, until I see other photos, that's convincing enough for me.
Thanks again to Senan for sharing the pic!

Regards

Ben
 
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Daniel Rosenshine

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Hi,

I was just wondering whether anyone has and can share a photo of Mr. R. W. Smith (cabin A19) with us. I'd like to know whether Smith is or is not the mystery man from Browne's photo.

Daniel.
 
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