Frank Carlson in passenger list even in Titanic Computer game but not on Titanic


Aydan D Casey

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Dec 9, 2000
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I note that the First class list on this site, as well as many others, list a first class passenger as boarding & dying on the Titanic, true he booked passage , but in one of those 'fate' stories , he missed the ship.According to Walter Lord in "The Night Lives On". Carlson was on his way to the docks in Cherbourg when his car tyre became flat & he had to change it, by the time he rectified this & arrived at the Cherbourg docks the Titanic had already departed for Queenstown.

Yet to this day, he is listed among the lost.As to the Titanic computer game reference , it is only in name, in "Titanic:Adventure out of time", the character of the game player British Agent Frank Carlson , is named after the aforementioned lucky booked passenger, but that is it.

Is Walter Lord wrong ? Or was Frank truly not on the ship ?

Responses please,

A.D.Casey
 

Mike Herbold

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Dec 13, 1999
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Aydan:
That's a good story, but I don't see Frank Carlson on the ET passenger list. He is on Walter Lord's list in "A Night to Remember," and on the original passenger list that is often re-printed. But he's not on the Eaton & Haas list in "Titanic: Triumph and Tragedy" or on Michael Findlay's list in Judith Geller's book "Titanic, Women and Children First", or on the list on this site. Unless you're thinking of Frans Carlsson, or Carlson, but he left from Southampton, not Cherbourg.
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi there,

A Dutch source says it was Mr Frank Olof Carlson who had car trouble. But that name is, as you mentioned, strange. It could be possible that there was a Mr Frank Olof Carlson, but I wonder if that name is a kind of wrong interpretation of Mr Frans Olof Carlsson who indeed boarded the Titanic and is listed on the passenger list. Is it so that the whole story about that "due car trouble boat missed Carslon" is untrue because of this?

I think Walter Lord is very confusing. He told about several other people (like a Mr Belford) onboard who were in fact fictive, but also about real facts.

Regards,
Rolf
 

Ben Holme

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Feb 11, 2001
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A reproduction of "The Daily Mirror" for April 22nd 1912 features a photograph of Frank Carlson. He is clean shaven and sporting an officer's cap. The caption reads; "Mr. Frank Carlson, who was drowned. Formerly a ship's officer, he was returning to the States to settle"

I'm guessing this is the man who missed the ship at Cherbourg as opposed to the man who actually died, am I right?

Regards
Ben
 
Dec 13, 1999
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It seems that two people, two different men, went by that name. The similarity between the names is only a coincidence, I believe. Here they are, as far as I can remember:

1) Frans Olof Carlsson: Used to be a ship officer, then a captain for the Red Star Line. The White Star Line paid Carlsson's passage in First Class. (Actually he spent £5)

2) Frank Carlson: American tourist. He was touring France, and was hoping to reach Cherbourg and come back to America on the Titanic. Unfortunatly, his car broke down and he missed the ship. His name remained on the Titanic's passenger list for years and years. I believe he died in the late twenties. I might be wrong.

Charles
 

Ben Holme

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Feb 11, 2001
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Charles - Thanks for the information.

In which case, the man whose pic appears in the daily mirror must be been the man who perished i.e Frans Olaf Carlsson. However, the photo with the caption appears to fulfil both criteria.

Anway, the similarity of names has certainly stirred up a lot of confusion.

Regards
Ben
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
>>Unfortunately, his car broke down....<<

Maybe not such a peice of bad luck.
wink.gif


Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Jan 31, 2001
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A bad tyre caused him to miss an ill-fated ocean voyage that he would have probably lost his life in, huh? My, my, the Car Trouble Gods certainly smiled upon him, didn't they? (Ha!Ha!)
 

Aydan D Casey

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Dec 9, 2000
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I have before me a reproduced passenger list from the THS archives, dated April 10th 1912, it lists only one person who fits our name.
"Mr Frank Carlson"- which would appear to support Walter Lord.

The Eaton & Haas passenger list is, by their own admission not entirely foolproof as they say:
" Readers are invited to send documented corrections or additions to authors..."

Also, Robin Gardiner & Dan vsn der Vat`s "The riddle of the Titanic" includes a passenger list, supporting both Walter Lord's story & the original White Star list, "Frank Carlson" ,also the Frans Olof Carlsson listed by Eaton & Haas, had a residence in New York.

Feel free to comment.By the way , does either name appear on the "Cave List" ?
 
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Daniel Rosenshine

Guest
The Cave list is on this site for all to see, and no Carlson/Carlsson is on the list.

The original Titanic list, printed aboard Titanic April 10, 1912 has more errors than the detailed E&H list.

The list printed aboard Titanic does not mention 8 names of first class passengers who did sail on the Titanic, and gives three names of passengers who didn't even sail.

White Star lists always had spelling mistakes of names in them. Titanic's list was no exception. Instead of Frans Olof Carlson, they printed his name as Frank Carlson. If indeed there was a man named Frank Carlson who literally did intend to board Titanic at Cherbourg, then the names are merely a coincidence.

Frans Olof Carlson booked passage in Southampton just a day before sailing day. He did not need to travel by car, let alone to Cherbourg.

Daniel.
 

Aydan D Casey

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Dec 9, 2000
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According to a British Public Records office document entitled " Marriages, births, deaths & injuries that Have occurred on board during the voyage " lists Frank Carlson amongst the First Class lost , it says he was a USC (ie US Citizen) and lists his place of Boarding at Cherbourg & his last known residence as " Elysee Palace Hotel".

Any thoughts or is this info to be treated with scepticism ?

Aydan
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Hi Aydan,

There are two PRO documents which list deceased passengers:
MT 9/920/201 Lists No 17 as Carlson, Frank; marks him as American; boarded at Southampton; but gives No Last Place of Abode. The Elysee Palace Hotel, Paris is alongside the name of deceased passenger No 14 who was E. Brandeis; also American and who boarded at Cherbourg.

BT 100/260 which is the one you have looked at and is headed: Marriages, Births, Deaths and Injuries .....; Lists No 16 as Mr Frank Carlson; U.S.C; but gives no Last Place of Abode or a boarding port.
Again the address you give is further up the page and could belong to either John B. Brady or E. Brandeis.

Hope this helps,
Lester
 

Aydan D Casey

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Dec 9, 2000
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this list I quoted may not openly give a boarding port, but it appears that the passengers are listed in order of where they boarded and on this list all na,es from no6 downwards have last abodes listed in France. Does this help ?
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Hi Aydan,

No it does not help. The list is alphebetical.

Just looking at Page 1 (I have printed copies) while Nos 6-9 and 13 have French addresses, Nos 10-12 and 14-18 have no adddresses. Also although he has a French address Thomson Beattie boarded at Southampton; as did all of those without addresses (Messrs Blackwell; Borebank and Brady; Major Butt and the two Mr Carraus); except for Dr Brewe.

If you look at the next group (Nos 19-37) you will see a mixture of London and Paris addresses as well as one for Belfast and one for Dublin.

Hope this helps,
Lester
 
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Daniel Rosenshine

Guest
Lester,

Are you sure that Beattie boarded in Southampton. I was under the impression that the three gentlemen (Beattie, McCaffry and Ross) boarded in Cherbourg. Sloper most probably had a cabin near them, as he refers to them in his account as "the three musketeers", saying: '"the three musketeers," had come aboard the ship at Cherbourg, Hugo Ross had been carried aboard flat on his back on a stretcher.’

Daniel.
 

Ben Holme

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Feb 11, 2001
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Hi Daniel,

I've debated this issue on a previous thread. I'm almost certain Beattie boarded the ship at Southampton. I will quote you a passage from Alan Hustak's book - "Titanic: The Canadian Story"

"The following morning, April 10th, 1912, Sloper joined the Fortunes, Ross, Beattie, and McCaffry and took the boat train to Southampton. Ross was now so ill with dysentry that he had to be carried to his compartment on a stretcher."

Curiously, the party had crossed from Paris to London where they "ended their vacation with a bon voyage party on Easter Sunday at the Carlton Hotel".

Hope this helps

Ben
 
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Daniel Rosenshine

Guest
I don't think Hustak is right. His book is not a primary source, and although it is one of the best books about passengers, it is not without errors. The three were vacationing in Europe, and yes, although the Fortunes and Sloper ended up in England, I think Beattie, McCaffry and Ross stayed in France.

Sloper and the Fortunes booked their tickets in London, whilst "the three musketeers" booked their tickets in France. Sloper would have known them and if they all had a bon voyage party, he would have said so in his account.

Daniel.
 
Jul 20, 2000
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Daniel, Ben,

Re Beattie. I also accepted the detailed account given by Hustak (although I'm not sure Beattie et al were at the Carlton party); but only after checking MT 9/920/201 and a typed Passenger List dated 9 May 1912 which has a handwritten Port of Embarkation column. Both lists have Southampton for Beattie, McCaffry and Ross.

As regards what Sloper said; while I am aware from Hustak that Ross was carried to his compartment on a stretcher; I cannot see in Sloper's account on this "Site" any mention of:
"the three musketeers", saying: '"the three musketeers," had come aboard the ship at Cherbourg, or that Hugo Ross had been carried aboard flat on his back on a stretcher."

The only mention of Ross is after the collision.

Daniel, please draw my attention to where Sloper says what he says about the three.

Lester
 
Dec 12, 1999
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Daniel,

I spoke to Alan Hustak about this error shortly after his book came out. We are both in agreement that the three Winnipeg bachelors (Ross, McCaffry and Beattie) embarked at Cherbourg. Their cabin numbers are another subject.
happy.gif
Alan regrets the error since he believed the three men stayed with the Fortune family during their final stop to London. The three men actually delayed their travels in Italy and France and embarked from the French port. Although he had the Sloper memoirs, he simply forgot to cross check the data. He does mention in his book that Ross was brought aboard on a stretcher in Cherbourg not realizing that he had already placed the Winnipeg men aboard at Southampton in a previous chapter.

Correction made,

Regards,

Mike Findlay
 

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