Frankfurt

J

Jeff Girard

Guest
Hello.

I just finished reading the Senate and Board of Trade testimonies of both Harold Bride and Cottom of the Carpathia. I was just curious if anyone had any idea what happened to the "fool" who was the Marconi operator on the Frankfurt, and if any punitive action was taken against the Frankfurt or their line. Even if you could point me in the direction of finding out myself, it would be greatly appreciated. Further, does anyone know if the Frankfurt was indeed closer than the Californian or the Carpathia to Titanic?

Personally, I also think that Senator Smith was right, in that it would have taken a minimal amount of effort to tell the Frankfurt that the Titanic was sinking. Although it appears that the Frankfurt operator was a fool, it would have been of minimal effort to just state that they were sinking...

Any help would be appreciated - even if anyone could just point me in the right direction.

Thanks,

Jeff Girard.
 
Hi Jeff,

the story about the fool is very confusing. I think it was a misunderstanding between Bride and Phillips. Phillips had the head phones and was busy with transmitting and listening, and he was handicaped by the noise of steam. Bride could only get what Phillips told him.

As far as i understand the fool story, it happened like this:
Phillips sent the first CQD at 10.25 New York time. Durrant, the marconi operator of the Mount Temple, answered after 2 or 3 minutes. Phillips said: "Can not hear you, old man. Here is my position, 41.46 N, 50.14...", the best what he could do. 20 minutes later the Frankfurt asked: "What's the matter ?"
Here we have contradictory evidences. Bride said, Phillips called him a fool. Durrant wrote in his P.V., Phillips gave the position. No fool was reported in the process verbal of the Mount Temple. My theory is, Phillips thought erroneously the ship which answered immediately and the one which asked 20 minutes later "What's the matter" were identical, and he uttered to Bride, the operator of the Frankfurt is a fool, but he behaved serious while he was "online" and did nothing more than report his position.

The signal of the Frankfurt was stronger than the Carpathia, so he thought the Frankfurt was the nearest.

Markus
 
Thanks Marcus!

That does help. Certainly Durrant is a more objective source.

However, I am a bit confused now. Do you think Harold Cottam is a reliable witness? In his testimony to the Senate, he says that he does remember the "Fool" remark being sent, indeed he heard it being sent. Do you think this is out of some feeling of loyalty to his friend Bride?

You are right, the story about the fool is rather convoluted. Thanks!

Jeff.
 
Hi Jeff, up to now i did not know that Cottam had heared that the remark about the fool was sent. However, in his testimony on the first day of the American enquiry he did not mention it. He mentioned that he answered first. The next ship was the Frankfurt, then the Olympic.

Some days later he was asked about Brides testimony. Reading that testimony i am not quite sure whether Cottam comments Brides testimony or what he heared himself. Cottam says that the Frankfurt waited 20 minutes before replying. But did he hear the first answer of the Frankfurt ? He did not even hear the first call of the Titanic which was at 10.25 New York Time, although he was waiting for some messages from Cape Cod. He himself called Phillips on the Titanic and asked whether he was aware that Cape Cod had messages for him. And Phillips said, CQD, come at once. Cottam asked Phillips, whether he should tell his captain, to have an confirmation. This happened, according Cottam at 10.35 or 10.38 New York time.

One the other hand he blames the operator of the Frankfurt for asking "Whats the matter ?".
He is justified to critisize the Frankfurt if she really waited 20 minutes and came back with nothing more than the question "Whats the matter?" But when the Frankfurt asked this immediate after she had heared the first CQD, this question is as good as Cottams question whether he should tell his captain.

I could imagine that Cottam can not distinguish between his own experience and Brides interpretation. After his rescue Bride helped Cottam to transmit the names of the passengers. Both men were over worked and did hardly sleep. So it is natural that Cottam developed a sympathetical feeling for Bride and made his interpretation to his own.

Some more evidences which confirm me in my interpretation:
According to Durrants PV the Frankfurt continued calling the Titanic even after she was not answering anymore.

Cyril Evens, the operator of the Californian, was asked whether the operator of the Frankfurt told something beeing rebuffed by Phillips. Evans could not remember anyting like that.

This is my view of the story. I can not even blame Bride. He was convinced that the Frankfurt answered twice, and he could not study the US- and British enquiry as we can do.

so far

all my best

Markus
 
Diana Bristow goes into this controversy in some detail in her book "Sinking the Myths." The differing accounts are completely tangled - what's missing is any deposition by the operator of the Frankfurt as to what he heard or what he was told, when he heard it, and what he took from it.

The Brooklynn Daily Eagle (April 24, 1912) reported from Bremerhaven extracts of Frankfurt Captain Hattorff's original report on the tragdy to his employers, NDL, in which he
said the Frankfurt gave its position as "140 miles" from the scene, adding in transmission to the Titanic that they would arrive at noon the next day (Titanic time).

They bettered that. Hattorff said they got there at 10am (Frankfurt time) on the 15th. He didn't
mention his W/o being rebuffed.
 
Don't take what I'm about to say too seriously in regard to Frankfurt:

Sometimes as Mission Commander flying in the E-2C Hawkeye, I would receive a call that would frustrate me, especially when tensions were running high. On many an occasion, I would answer an distracting call by a clueless participant with an unflattering comment about the sender's personal character, without depressing the transmit key. That way, I could blow off steam without compromising my professional demeanor on the circuit. Having dealt with my frustration by sharing my true feelings with a dead mike, I could then key the mike and calmly respond to my antagonist, usually with a "Wait, out." The other two controllers in the back with me would not hear my comment, because of the loud background noise created by the engines.

Parks
 
Distance of Frankfurt - I wrote:

The Frankfurt was 140 miles away, the Carpathia 58 miles, the Birma 70 miles, the Mount Temple 50 miles.
In the PV of Ipiranga the position is given:
10.46 pm DFT ruft MGY und gibt Position at 12 am 39,47 N 50,10 W.

I put this in my calculator: The distance between 39,47 N 50,10 W and 41.46 N and 50.14 W is 119 miles.

Markus
 

Similar threads

E
SS Frankfurt
Replies
5
Views
6K
Eugene_Manstein
E
Svetlana Strezeva
Frankfurt called a Fool
Replies
9
Views
6K
Roy Kristiansen
R
J
Impact of BritishGerman competition or conflict or both
Replies
6
Views
2K
Jemma Hyder
J
M
Mystery Ship in the distance
5 6
Replies
84
Views
10K
Dave Gittins
Dave Gittins
E
Stress Fracture Possibility Or Not
24 25
Replies
364
Views
27K
Erik Wood
E
Back
Top