Frederick Fleet


John Clifford

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Mar 30, 1997
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BTW, in the book "Titanic Voices", coauthored by Donald Hyslop, Alastair Forsyth and Sheila Jemima, there is a 1961 picture of Fred Fleet. At that time he sold copies of the Southern Daily Echo at a news stand in Southampton.

Fred Fleet also related that he was an orphan, in a letter written to Ed Kamuda. The text of the letter and Fred's picture are on page 273 of "Titanic Voices".

There is also a picture of Fred's grave, at Southampton's Hollybrook Cemetery, on page 282 of "Titanic Voices".
 

James Hayward

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Nov 27, 2006
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Can anyone please tell me what Frederick Fleet's religion was? I ask because I am currently involved in a production of "Titanic the Musical" and, in the relevant scene, immediately before the collision, the character of Fleet is given the line: "Holy Mother of God...iceberg right ahead!". Now, I know that the famous last three words have the provenance of Fleet's own testimony, but the earlier words have clearly been added for dramatic effect. What worries me is that this type of expletive would only be used by a Roman Catholic, and I am not sure if these words "ring true" from what we have found out so far about Fleet. It sounds Irish, really, and Fleet was born in Liverpool where there was and still is a large Irish Catholic community - but he was brought up in a succession of foster homes. Can anyone verify whether Fleet had a Catholic upbringing, and whether, as a result, this is an expression he is actually likely to have used?

It annoys me that the musical is sometimes inaccurate - historically, verbally and socially - but it is still seems much more faithful than the James Cameron film. I would like my production to be as authentic as possible.
 
Jul 21, 2003
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"It annoys me that the musical is sometimes inaccurate - historically, verbally and socially"


I agree James, My Late father's cousin Charles V Clarke is featured in the musical. "Caroline Neville" is an upper class English women who is running away with C V Clarke to marry him against her parents wishes. Charles and his wife Ada M Winfield had in fact been married for four years before they sailed on Titanic. Charles perished whilst Ada survived
 

James Hayward

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Nov 27, 2006
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Thank you, Barry. I suppose it is not surprising that the authors felt it necessary to conflate characters and re-work certain facts in order to achieve the dramatic purpose. The same was done with the film A Night To Remember. Unfortunate, though, when a family member is involved.

Still, all of us working on the show have been very affected by it already, and we are not performing it until April. As you yourself have a connection to one of the victims, you may be interested to know that our cast includes two brothers, Jonathan and Matthew Mudd, who are the great-great nephews of Thomas Mudd, a second class passenger from here in Suffolk, who also lost his life.

James
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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James, the musical was never intended to be an authentic representation of the characters or events involved with the sinking of the Titanic, any more than Evita was intended as a reliable biography of Eva Peron. So I don't think anybody is likely to pass judgement in that respect and I wouldn't be too concerned about it. From all accounts, TTM works very well for its intended purpose as an entertainment inspired by real events, and stirs the emotions as it should. That would be the limit of my expectations, and I would enjoy the production as such. Sure you could get a lot closer to authentic portrayals, but only if you binned the script and started from scratch with historical advisers on hand. The result would very likely be unwatchable! I'm sure your audience will appreciate the story as it stands and will be moved by it, and that's what it's all about.
.
 

James Hayward

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Nov 27, 2006
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You are, of course, absolutely right, Bob. And I wouldn't actually seek to change anything in the musical, even if I could, which I can't because we have been licensed to perform the work only as writ. As you say, it is a very stirring piece and I am sure our audiences are going to be very moved by it. It just slightly aggravates me that the authors sometimes changed things when they didn't really need to.
The Titanic disaster is still a very emotive subject too, unlike, say, Evita Peron (well, in the UK anyway). There has already been one letter in the local press criticising the decision to mount the production implying that the appalling loss of life makes it an unfit subject for a musical play.
 
Eva Peron is still a VERY emotive subject in Argentina. In 2006, they moved Juan Peron's body to a new location and fighting broke out among the unions that were gathered to watch. I think fighting nearly 50 years after he left power would point to a highly-charged and emotional subject.
 

Marie Lewis

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Apr 18, 2009
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Hi My Grandmar was Eva Fleet her mother and father is Samuel and Constance Fleet and all from Merseyside, Samuel was around the same age of Alice Fleet so trying to find out if we are connected or if any1 out there thinks they may be conected to myself. Marie
 
Jan 27, 2011
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Hi All, I am new to the board and have been a big Titanic buff for quite a while now. I have been reading a lot here on this board for a while now and have picked up a lot of great information. I know quite a bit about Fleet but I was wondering if anybody out there has done any research with Fred's life than what is already pretty much known. I know Titanic Voices has a lot of good stuff (which is a book I plan on purchasing soon) also there are a few Commutators out there that have some info on him which I am looking for as well). If anybody has anything to share that I might be able to use that would be great, thanks!

Michael
 
Jan 27, 2011
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I am looking for a copy of Frederick Fleet's Birth and Death Certificates. Does anyone out there have copies of them, if so could you please email me copies? I know all the basics on Fred's life after and before Titanic, but always wanting to find out more on him, what little there might be found. Frederick Fleet has always been somebody that I have always had a lot of interest in and would love to find more out on his life before and after Titanic besides the general information that can be found. Thanks!

Michael
 
Jan 27, 2011
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Thanks Dave, I will check that out. Do you know if it is possible to order copies of these? I live in the US, but don't know how easy or how hard obtaining some of these records are in other countries. Again, thanks for your help.

Michael
 
May 16, 2008
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Well I don't know about ordering from the US, but if I ordered a certificate from here in the UK it would be about 10 GBP per certificate if the registry index number is known. If it is not known then the price triples as they have to do a broader search. Index numbers can be found on most ancestry websites or even freeBMD website. Certs are available from the GRO (General Registry Office)website.

It might be easier for you to pay someone over here to order them for you then send it on? Someone you trust though who won't run off with your cash!
 
Jan 27, 2011
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Thanks Dave, I was possibly thinking that somebody out there on the board might have some copies available, but don't know? Guess maybe these wont be as easy as I thought to get. I agree, it would probably be best in that case to find a person in the UK who could get them and go from there, might be something that I will have to look into if I want these. Another thing I have been searching for is a actual newspaper obituary of Frederick Fleets, either from the New York times or the Southampton Echo, anybody out there have one of those?

Michael
 
D

Deleted member 173198

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Michael

I have one more week before I finish at work for the Christmas holidays. During the week prior to Christmas I am due to call at Southampton Reference Library as my own priority list demands me to do a lot digging elsewhere.

If you wish I can add your request onto my list and print off Fleet's obituary and arrange delivery directly to your home address in the U.S.

The choice is yours and your alone. Please inform.
 
D

Deleted member 173198

Guest
Ordering a death certificate. I have the details Michael if you wish to place your order with the GRO based up in Lancashire. Very important you quote the references as I've submitted but the guild lines on the site in question are pretty straightforward and easy to follow.

FREDERICK FLEET

Death -- Jan. Feb March 1965. Age 76.


District -- Southampton Vol. 6b. Page 857

Failing that I could offer my services and place the order on your behalf and pay out of my own pocket providing you are prepared to fulfill your side of the promise.
 

Dave Gittins

Member
Mar 16, 2000
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I can't see any point in going beyond the Death Certificate on titanic-titanic. A little of it is cut off, but all the essentials are there.

Obituaries from the Echo and the New York Times are on this site. He didn't make The Times in London.
 

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