From raising the Titanicto building another one Or Big T pipe dreams


George Heiss

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Nice reading your posts on this topic. The recreation of a 'Titanic' style ship has been something I was dreaming about for a long time. The Titanic has always been my favorite ship not only because of the history, but because the way it was designed and how beautiful the first class areas were on the ship. I have heard about speculations of the creation of a replica for a while and at first I was in favor of one, although I did have qualms about a replica being given the name 'Titanic' (or variation of). Right off the bat I believed it should be called something else. But about 4 or 5 years ago I came to the realization of what Parks mentioned above...an exact replica just cannot exist. Back then I got a hold of the full deck plans of the Titanic shortly after the movie was released. I started to study the ship from bow to stern from Boat Deck to Tank Top to learn everything about the ship. In doing so I made a rather grizzly discovery. The Titanic by and large would not be a very exciting cruise unless you happen to be in one of the more oppulant rooms you see in the movies. Why? Well, the truth of the matter (as Parks pointed out) is that almost all the rooms, including much of the first class rooms, didn't have a private bathroom. That right there would stop even the most die hard Titanic fans from even going on the ship. Then the next thing that came to light was the division of class. This is something that would not exist today and really would defeat the purpose of creating a replica in the first place. You WANT ALL the people to experience what it was like on an Edwardian era ship. So the ship would also have to be made larger to create better accomodations for all. Why larger? Well considering the Titanic had 4 to 8 people to a small room is why. People today wouldn't tolerate being packed in like sardines. Also true is that the Titanic really didn't have much to do in terms of activities. The pool was so small that you could have a larger pool in your backyard! Yes, for it's time it was grand that a ship even had a pool but now things are different and activities are a must on board a ship. While modern society and shipping industry does dictate that an exact replica of the Titanic cannot and will not exist, I do still believe in a recreation of an Edwardian style ship that is very similar in outward and internal appearance and amenities. What I believe the biggest draw to Titanic is it's history and first class oppulance. Most of us want to be exposed to the history and what it was like to be in the first class accomodations of such a ship. Much of this grandeur could be retained on a loosely based replica. You could still have the grand staircase, the opulant sitting rooms and of course the beautiful dining rooms. Suites could be created that are similar in appearance. Basically much of the feel of an Edwardian era ship could be retained. What was consider the 'smoking room' could very well be designed as a casino. 2nd and 3rd class dining rooms which would no longer be a factor would free up spaces for the needed entertainment facilities and theatres for shows and acts. For the history side of things, many references could be made of the White Star Line. The china and linens could all still be reproductions of the originals. So the overall feel can be maintained to a certain degree. The engines however are another issue. Burning coal is not very efficient and more then likely the ship would be based on a diesel power. A full steamer would be nice, but definately not cost effective. However, I do believe in retaining the funnels to maintain 'the look'. So overall will it be an exact replica...no it cannot be and will not be. But something close or approximate would be nice. Do I believe there is such a market for such a ship? ...Yes, I do. The question is how much of a market is there and moreover, how much would one want to spend to travel on such a ship.

Geo
 

Teresa Parks

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I agree with everything George Heiss said - with the exception that you are looking at the ship through today's eyes & all our technology & toys - if I was going on a replica of Titanic - I would want it 100% authentic. I would gladly give up all of today's amenities to "step back in time" I would even want to be on the ship in period dress. I look at it this way all my toys would be there when the cruise was done but how often do you get to experience the past? But that's just my opinion.
 
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Wayne Keen

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Teresa,

Actually, what you said was exactly what I had in mind for the "if I became filthy filthy rich"
As close to bolt for bolt as I could make it. (Might hook some lines up to sewage treatment facilities at the special dock I would keep it at)

Would it matter to you by the way if it ever went anywhere on its own power? For me, I think not.

Wayne
 

George Heiss

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Hello Teresa, Believe it or not, I would be totally for an exact replica. I am very much into history and I even thought an exact replica of Titanic would be great, except for the name. I did mentioned this above. However, from a business point of view the ship could never be a viable transportation source without some modern amenities. I do agree with you that if the ship is intended to be a 'floating' museum type cruise ship, that much adhearance to the original design should be incorporated. But there are things that just wouldn't be accepted in todays society. As I pointed out with the bathrooms. Sure the ship can have a room or two to showcase what a 3rd class and 2nd class passenger suite looked like from a 'museum' point of view, but really would you pay a tremendous amount of money to be boxed in a small room with four other people with just a sink? Nope, you would definately rather have one of the large first class rooms with a private bath. Everyone would. It is a difficult call to make. Perhaps there would be die hard fans and historians that would put up with those conditions just for the experience. Something like that could even be made as option. But still as a whole for the ship to survive as a business, there has to be many modern provisions made. Take the engines for example. I agree that nothing trilled me more in JC's Titanic when they gave the full ahead order and those steam engines winded up to full power. I would have LOVED to be there for that! I would even love the 'pseudo replica' to be steam driven. But look at the facts. The Titanic burned over 600 tons of coal A DAY! Granted, you could go with petroleum based fired boilers...that would help, but again, now is another compromise for modern technology. Now we enter efficiency. A steam based system is not very efficient so more then likely a compromise would have to be made in the hull design to make the ship travel through the water more efficiently. This would mean the ship would need a bulbous bow...another needed compromise. Also another factor is the instruments. Radio for one. You couldn't seriously use a rotary spark radio nowadays...even for demonstration practices, the interferance an open spark would create would be tremendous. Now naturally I would like to see a mock Marconi set up where it should be for historic purposes. But somewhere on the ship, a modern radio and a modern radar has to be present. Granted, this can be hidden. Now comes the bridge. I wouldn't settle for anything less then true accuracy here...but is is feasible in today's age? Granted, again modern components could be hidden. It really boils down to the market. I seriously doubt there are not enough die hard fans to keep such a ship 'afloat' if it were just geared for the Titanic fan market. BUT if the ship incorporated ammenities for both the historians as well as those that take an interest in Titanic, but are also looking for an enjoyable cruise. Now you are tapping into a larger market. So at this level the project to create the kind of replica I described just may be feasible. Now as Wayne pointed out...if a replica of the ship was built more or less as a hotel like the old Queen Mary is...then that changes things. Then you could go more for a bolt to bolt replica. Since the ship will not go anywhere, the costs associated with prepping and sailing a ship is not present. This was the first thing that came to my mind after Titanic was finished filming in that the 90% model could be transformered into a 'Titanic' inspired historic hotel. The trouble is I found out that much of the sets were destroyed in the actual film making
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. But I would agree with Wayne that if the ship was basically a static replica that was not an actual working ship, then it is feasible. But still, the room arrangements would have to be changed to allow people to have private baths. Sure a handful of exact replica rooms could be made to adhere to accuracy. All in all some compromises would have to be made even for this venture. But definately a static replica could be made much more accurate as opposed to an actual working ship. In both cases, as long as much of the Edwardian era 'look' is maintained and can be made believeable...then I will be happy with that. I hope this clears anything that maybe vague in my original post.

Geo
 

George Heiss

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Oh, I did forget to add the obvious...safety codes, need for more lifeboats, insurance issues. But I figured that was a given and didn't need to be repeated. Oh! I did find a thread here labeled 'Titanic 2' which has a great amount of information about these issues including everything we discussed here based on an actual floating "replica" or a static hotel type structure.
 
Jul 25, 2005
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I hate to say this, but even if an exact replica could never be made - even if they put all the modern conveniences in and evened up the classes and changed everything around, as long as the name on the ship says "Titanic" there will always be some people who want to sail on her. A lot of those people wouldn't even care about the inaccuracies - in fact they'd probably prefer not to have to sail without modern bathrooms and a gym.

Let's face it, for most people history takes a second place to novelty. As long as someone would enjoy the novelty of saying the sailed on the Titanic, people will still try to make another ship with that name. I don't think that idea will ever completely go away.
 

Teresa Parks

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>Would it matter to you by the way if it ever >went anywhere on its own power? For me, I think >not.
Wayne,
Okay maybe the only thing I wouldn't want exactly like Titanic - is enough lifeboats for everyone - then yes I would ride on it - under it's own power.
Teresa
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Teresa Parks

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You bring up some very good points - George
Very thought provoking - I enjoyed mulling over the possibilities but I still stand behind my earlier statement.
 
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Wayne Keen

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Teresa,

Then there are probably a number of other mechanical changes you would probably have to make.

Which is OK. Your dream is yours, my dream is mine. I hope we both get to our dreams.

I think I mumbled somewhere earlier about a story I wrote in which a character possessed the ability to recreate any object to pristine new condition from any piece of it. For a certain rich individual, he created an exact duplicate of the Titanic (and some other ships that bear striking resemblence to some personal favorites...ahem). That would be my fantasy. To walk the decks of an exact duplicate. For me, a near replica/ simulacrum would not do.

Yes, I am more than passing strange....

Wayne
 

George Heiss

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Hello Theresa, Wayne.

Yes, the dreams are yours and I am pretty sure are shared by many many more. Can what you want be done? Absolutely, nothing is impossible. But I would see it as a very expensive private operation that would remain as such. A commerical venture WOULD be impossible. So you would have a very expensive full size model that wouldn't be able to go anywhere and no one would be allowed to go on except perhaps for your friends and family. So unfortunately in todays world many compromises would have to be made.

However, as Wayne put it, since we are now entering the realm of fantasy, then I am all for it. But lets take it one step further and do it right. In this realm, lets forget the replica, lets have a go at the Real McCoy. Let's create a flying time traveling Delorean (or your preferance of time traveling conveyance) and go back to 1912 Belfast. You just couldn't get any better than that! Anybody got a used Flux Capacitor laying around?

(Oh, please do not take this the wrong way, I am in no way being sarcastic. I am just running with what Wayne said about fantasy. Please do not take offense).

Geo
 

Richard Otter

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Even if it was financially possible, which I do not think it ever will be, a diesel powered replica, built to modern standards, with modern amenities just would not do it for me. I think the only way will be to wait for developments in virtual reality. With the way computer technology is moving along who can say how good a virtual Titanic would be in a few years time. So good maybe, you couldn’t tell the difference? Ahhhh, then I could really walk along the firemen’s passage, climb the second-class forward staircase and stand in the engine room as the bridge calls for full power.
 
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Wayne Keen

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Richard,

That is along the lines of an idea of mine for a while. Even before "Total Recall", the idea of some form of immersive environment in which "A Night to Remember" becomes a test. A test of character, to see how one would react to possible impending death - would one face the end as the brave, or attempt to cheat your fate.

A little more than virtual reality, more like Recall, but hey, I have a lot of silly/stupid ideas that I am foolish enough to open my mouth and talk about,

Wayne
 

George Heiss

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Hello Wayne,

That is a good idea you have there. It is ahead of it's time for now. But if virtual reality ever did graduate to the point of exciting all senses (sight, sound, touch, smell, etc), then a viable model could be accurately created and you could be 'virtually' present on Titanic's fateful voyage. You could be a passenger or even play any key person as a character.

I like it. It may not be possible now, but I can see it being so in the future. Sure beats my finding a Flux Capacitor anytime soon
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Richard Otter

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The beauty of a virtual or immersive Titanic is that it would be much easier to explore ‘what-ifs’. From all the little questions right up to the big ones like whether Murdoch really had the time to put the engines in reverse. With this method you could find out, without the expensive of building a full sized replica (which would not really please anybody). This Titanic could be easily changed based on current thinking and any new discoveries made in the future.

This all sounds a bit fanciful I know, but you only have to look at what is possible in the movies with CGI technology.
 

George Heiss

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Yes, nice point Richard.

It is something that is dynamic and can be changed easily. Ballistics can be imported into the computer based on the mass of the ship, rudder size and other factors as you mentioned. Then a model could be made based on these factors. However, I think this can be done today but I believe it would only be a matter of time before Wayne's idea comes to full realization. As I said, I do like the idea alot. I believe it is possible...not yet in the present, but as computer power increases who knows what will be available in the near future.
 
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Wayne Keen

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I envisioned something at one time like a version of Star Trek's Kobiahi Maru scenario.

Perhaps it *is* a good night to die!

;)

Wayne
 

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