George Rheims on A deck


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Rolf Vonk

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Hello there,

On page 140 of "Titanic triumph and tragedy" the following sentences are mentioned: "George Rheims a Titanic passenger, steps out of an A deck bathroom, forward, and looks aft as the berg slides by."

Mr Rheims had just been in one of the gents bathrooms on A deck, when the collision with the iceberg took place. Doesn't that mean that Mr Rheims had his cabin on A deck, cause it must be strange to take a bath on another deck, when there are bathrooms in your own gangway. I think, also looking at the ticketprice (I know this is not allways reliable), that Mr Rheims had his cabin on A deck.

Any thoughts about this? I'm looking forward to hearing from you,

Rolf
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

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Hi Rolf,

Is this the Dutch translation of the book? If so, I believe you've encountered an example of mistaken translation. I don't have the book, but I've read elsewhwere that Rheims stated that he "stepped out of an A-deck MEN'S ROOM" i.e the smoking room which was on A-deck. I can see how "men's room" could have been misinterpreted to mean "bathroom" (Men's room = men's toilet = "gents" etc).

Rheims was certainly in the smoking room with Joseph Loring when the collision occured. He could have peered through the Verandah cafe doors to see the berg gliding past. Also, all the bathrooms on A-deck were on the inside of the ship i.e there were no portholes to look out of. The only outside bathrooms on A-deck were in A-36 and A-37, occupied by Thomas Andrews and Fr. Browne respectively.

However, this does not rule out the possibilty that Rheims occupied an A-deck cabin. I agree that the price is typical of an inside cabin on A-deck. Although this is a dangerous game to play, I am pretty convinced, for example, that Dr. Arthur Brewe occupied A-17.

Hope all this has helped.

Regards
Ben
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi Ben,

Thanks for the information! I see your point. Though I haven't a Dutch translation of the Eaton&Haas book (I think there is none), it really says Rheims was comming out of a bathroom during the collision. Really strange!! I have the 2nd edition and I don't know if there are new editions published. The only bathrooms where Rheims could have been during the collison are on the forward part of A deck. When you step out of the bathroom, there is no way to look outside and see the iceberg. The sentence must be false.

It's true that Rheims was in the smokingroom with Loring. I believe that story is in "Titanic an illustrated history". It's really a dangerous game to put passengers into a cabin without any evidence and only because of their ticket price. Though I think there is a great opportunity that Rheims was in an A or B deck cabin. Why are you convinced that Dr. Arthur Brewe occupied A-17? I guess Mr William Fisher Hoyt or Mr Robert Daniels may have occupied an A deck cabin too.

I'm looking forward to your respons!

Regards,
Rolf
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
Hi Rolf,

I think we're agreed. There is little doubt that Rheims was in the smoking room at the time of the collision. It must, therefore, be the case that the authors are in error over this piece of evidence.

Although using prices to discern various cabins is not a great idea, it is possible to narrow it down quite significantly this way. I have placed Brewe in A-17 because the equivelent cabin on the port side was occupied by Sir Cosmo Duff-Gordon. He paid exactly the same price as Brewe for that cabin.
I agree, Hoyt and Daniel are potential A-deck cabin occupants. Antoinette Fleganheim may also have occupied an A-deck cabin.

Hope this has helped! The subject of cabin numbers has always interested me. If you have any other suggestions regarding "cabinless" passengers I'd be willing to listen.

Regards

Ben
 
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Rolf Vonk

Guest
Hi Ben,

Thanks for your information. It's indeed very interesting to search for potential cabinoccupiers (if this is spelled correct, cause I couldn't find it in my dictionary).

Did I already discussed with you about Reuchlin's cabin? Cause I thought it would have been somewhere on B deck.

I'm looking forward to your posts!

Regards,
Rolf
 
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Daniel Rosenshine

Guest
Hi,

Placing Brewe in A17 just because Cosmo DG paid the same price is a wrong thing to do.

Rheims also paid the same price as Cosmo and Brewe, yet he was not in A17, nor was he in a cabin similar to A17. I'm not saying Brewe wasn't on A deck, but putting him in A17 just because Cosmo in A16 paid the same price is too wrong and has no supportive evidence.

Rheims was in an A deck cabin, but it was on the port side.

My understanding about the "bathroom" incident was that Rheims just stepped out of a bathroom, felt the shock and quickly ran to one of the windows at the end of a passageway. I could be wrong though.

Daniel.
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
On reflection, narrowing it down to one cabin is quite a major statement!
However, I would still place him in an inside A-deck cabin...port or starboard. I'm putting forward A-17 as a suggestion.
However, if Rheims was in an outside A-deck cabin, that would alter my opinion. I don't think there is any doubt that Brewe was on A-deck.

Ben
 
Excuse me Daniel, but isn't it obvious that George Rheims' cabin would have been located on the starboard side, rather than on port side? The fact that he came out of the bathroom and ran up to a nearby window to see the iceberg points out that he was going towards his room on the side of the ship strucked by the berg, hence the starboard side. Well, that's the impression I always had.

I also agree that placing people in a particular cabin only from a ticket price is quite dangerous. The price of the ticket could nonetheless point to the 'type' of cabin (indoor, outdoor, deck...).

Concretely, there's nothing to prove that Brewe had his stateroom on A-deck...

Charles
 
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Ben Thomas Sebastian Holme

Guest
sorry, I meant "I would still place him in an OUTSIDE cabin". Because the only record of Dr. Brewe on board comes from Molly Brown and possibly Emma Bucknell, little is known of his actions on board. This includes his cabin.
As Charles pointed out, the ticket price points to the type of cabin, but I would say it can also point to the deck in some cases.
Concretely, there is no evidence, but I think Brewe is an exception to the ticket/cabin rule. No similar price exists for the other decks for a single man.

Ben
 
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