Germanic II/Homeric


Remco Hillen

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Jan 6, 2001
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Hello all,

When I was reading Simon Mills' Last Titan again some weeks ago, I came across a quote which I didn't notice before:

quote:

..The Britannic's entry into service would have restored the situation, while plans for a fourth vessel - tentatively to be named Germanic but tactfully changed to Homeric following the outbreak of hostilities - were also at an advanced stage...
I had never heard of a planned fourth Olympic-class liner before, and this book is the only place where I read/heard about it(not that I have much books, but ok
happy.gif
).
Has anyone else heard about it? Or did Mills made a mistake?

Any ideas are, as always, welcome!

Regards,
Remco​
 

Erik Wood

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Apr 10, 2001
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That is news to me. I haven't heard of this either. I bet Mark Baber or Mark Chirnside may have some insight into this.

Erik
 

Mark Baber

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Dec 29, 2000
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After Titanic was lost, White Star announced that it was going to build a smaller (33,600 ton) ship named "Germanic". She is said to have appeared in the line's lists of upcoming tonnage from 1913, when she was first announced, until about 1919, when she disappeared without explanation. (Along the way, the name "Germanic" became politically incorrect, and the ship's name was changed to "Homeric".)

Haws' Merchant Fleets says her keel was laid before World War I began, but the slip was turned over to other work after war broke out; Anderson's White Star says the ship was never laid down; Eaton & Haas' Falling Star say she was laid down after the war ended, but was later dropped from White Star's plans when NDL's Columbus was acquired and renamed Homeric.
 
Feb 14, 2011
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Wasnt there an article in the Titanic Commutator a few years back about deck plans for a proposed post- 1912 four funneled White Star line,(the plans were recently discovered at harland and wolff) that wopuld have been bigger than the Olympic class? Was this vessel serious concidered, or was it just an exercise for the engineers to hone out their skills?

regards

Tarn Stephanos
 
Jan 5, 2001
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Mark Baber beat me to it. It's a good thing because I'm so pished for time lately. Thanks. However, there is a source about a 60,000-ton Ceric as well, around 1913-14, per E&H Falling Star.

I don't think Mills meant a fourth 'Olympic' class liner, but rather a fourth vessel destined -- or planned -- for the express service (making a total of three because Titanic had been lost.

Best regards,

Mark.
 

Steve Smith

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Mar 20, 2011
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"pished for time?"

Hmm... I have that problem too, after the fifth Guiness.


(Sorry! - Couldn't resist...)
 
Apr 27, 2001
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Methinks this is how it goes:

H&W always considered a 1000' ship since the 1890's

To supplement Olympic after Titanic, a 30K ton ship was considered. The 1000'-er was also considered here.

After getting some good German ships, these plans were scrapped.

More plans for a 1000'-er was drawn up in '25, Oceanic III. Construction started but was cancelled after the crash. They used the metal for Georgic II instead.

That was a shame cause Oceanic would have looked beautiful.
sad.gif
 
S

Stefan Christiansson

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Are there any deckplans of these mammoths available? Would be nice to see what improvements they had come up with since the Olympic-class liners.

Cheerio
 

Mark Baber

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With respect to the never-built Germanic II, here's what the 1913 IMM annual report had to say about her; the highlighting in bold is added by me:

Your Directors have authorized the construction of a steamer of about 33,600 tons and 19 knots speed for the New York-Liverpool service of the White Star Line, to be named "Germanic," and to be of the "Adriatic" type, with such alterations and improvements as experience has suggested and as are made possible by her greater size. It is expected the "Germanic" will be completed in time to enter the service in 1916, and that she will be an exceedingly attractive steamer.

The Liverpool service! That certainly wouldn't make her Titanic's replacement, would it?
 
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Brent Holt

Guest
I wonder why White Star didn't order another Olympic class ship after the loss of Titanic? With Britannic under construction, they could have simply built another one to those plans. The war would have intervened, of course. Although I expect HAL's Statendam might have spoiled plans to build another Olympic class ship since she was built alongside Britannic.
Brent
 
J

Jonathan Payette

Guest
Hello,

Is there any drawings of the Germanic, the liner White Star planned to replace the Titanic. I heard it would have been 35 000 tons, but appart from that I don't know much about it. Did White Star and H&W had plans for it, or was it just a project that was actually approved but not much advanced when the war broke-out ?

From what I also know, the Homeric replaced the intented Germanic and the Majestic replaced the Britannic, for White Star's superliner trio.

Thanks for answering and have a happy new year,
Jonathan
 

Mark Baber

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Hello, Jonathan---

Whether there are drawings of the never-built Germanic/Homeric (Harland & Wolff yard number 470), I don't know, but the ship was not intended as Titanic's replacement. Here's what IMM's 1913 Annual Report had to say about her, the bold print has been added by me:

Your Directors have authorized the construction of a steamer of about 33,600 tons and 19 knots speed for the New York-Liverpool service of the White Star Line, to be named "Germanic," and to be of the "Adriatic" type, with such alterations and improvements as experience has suggested and as are made possible by her greater size. It is expected that the "Germanic" will be completed in time to enter the service in 1916, and that she will be an exceedingly attractive steamer.

Although quite acceptable on the Liverpool service, a 19 knot ship simply wouldn't do as Titanic's replacement; that was just not fast enough for a ship on the express service. (This is why the 18 1/2 knot Homeric, acquired as a war reparation, didn't fit well on the Southampton service with Olympic and Majestic II, even after her speed was increased to 19 1/2 knots in 1924.)

[An aside: The ship that was eventually built as number 470, originally assigned to Germanic/Homeric, was the much smaller, much later Laurentic II.]

IMM's annual reports contain no reference to the authorization or construction of any ship designed to "replace" Titanic.
 
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Brent Holt

Guest
I wonder why White Star wanted another ship for the Liverpool service? They already had the Big Four, and they wouldn't need replacements for quite a while.
I have wondered for a long while why White Star didn't order another Olympic Class liner after Titanic was lost. Titanic was partially insured, that money could have gone toward a replacement.
Brent
 
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Alex McLean

Guest
Keep in mind Brent, White Star weren't in that good of a position after the Titanic went down, and the sinking of the Britannic closed the deal on creating more 'Olympic-Class' liners, or so I read.
 
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Brent Holt

Guest
Actually, I doubt Britannic's loss had much of an effect on White Star's financial position. She was insured. Although the loss of Titanic and Britannic was a blow to WS, the company was able to mount a strong competition to Cunard post-war. Both companies fought it out for the top 2 positions in passenger carryings.
Brent
 
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Brent Holt

Guest
I also expect that Germanic was not intended as a Titanic replacement. Her size of about 35,000 tons might not have been economical to White Star if the service speed was intended to be over 20 knots.

Brent
 

Dave Moran

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Apr 23, 2002
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I would have thought that The Great War would have suspended the ship's construction, and then after the war everything would have been so chaotic - war reparations, insurance payments, the impact on any work force of the deprivations of both the War itself and the Great Influenza epidemic - that it would have been at least the early twenties before White Star would have been able to contemplate building a new liner. By then ' Germanic ' would have been a ten year old design, with a rather unpopular name...and would have been rethought I would have thought.
 

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