Ghosts of the Abyss by James Cameron

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Michael Tennaro

Member
there was one quick moment in GotA that really shocked me. it was the recreation of a scene from Charles Pellegrino's latest Titanic book in which he claims to have correspondence from Helen Churchill Candee that she did a Jack & Rose at Titanic's bow (I think) the night before the sinking. aside from Pellegrino's claims to having this private correspondence, I have never heard of any collaborating evidence that any such event really took place. and I always took the information with a very huge grain of salt. it would not have been a part of the ship Candee would have had access to.

it was thus a big surprise to me to see this scene recreated in the film. has anybody else ever seen any evidence to support the claim that Candee ever really did this??????

curiously, Michael (TheManInBlack) T
 
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Randy Bryan Bigham

Member
Michael,

I have said before that I question the integrity of Pellegrino's research. I know for certain that his published information on the Duff Gordons (and to some extent Edith Russell) is erroneous.

I have only begun looking into Helen Candee, in whom I'm interested in much the same way as I am Lucile and Edith Russell (i.e., her career), but I can tell you that, from what I've found, the manuscript allegedly penned by her is not at all in keeping with the writing style of her published work.

I mean no disrespect to James Cameron, who is a genius and seems a sincere man, but I do think his ego is stroked a bit by Pellegrino's convenient tale. It is in his interest, and Pellegrino's, to promote a story that supports such a pivotal and famous scene in the movie.

So personally I don't believe the Candee article, on which the GotA scene was based, to be authentic. Of course, for cinematic purposes, it doesn't have to be true.

Randy
 
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Pat Winship

Member
Michael, I was wondering the same thing myself, and thinking "Well, if she DID do that, I'll bet she didn't do it for long!" I'm sure that if she even got there, somone in the crew would have chased her back where she belonged, PDQ.

Pat W.
 
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Randy Bryan Bigham

Member
I've been reminded that Cameron DID provide something of a disclaimer to Pellegrino's assertion: you will recall that the latter says in his narration in GotA that Helen Candee "claimed" that the business on the bow occurred.
 
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Parks Stephenson

Member
I may be wrong on this, but I think Don Lynch verified the incident from someone's personal letter (if so, then Don verified that the incident was reported in a letter...I don't know that there's any way to verify that the incident actually happened as reported). I don't remember the details, as passenger histories are not my forte. I might even have remembered the whole thing wrongly. If you want to get to the bottom of this, though, someone should check with Don. I didn't see Charlie Pellegrino on the set when the scene was shot.

Parks
 
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Randy Bryan Bigham

Member
Parks wrote: "If you want to get to the bottom of this, though, someone should check with Don."

It was information from Don that prompted my above clarification.
 
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Daniel Klistorner

Member
All,

I have been living under a rock, but now that I have emerged for a brief moment, I might as well say a few words. Regarding Candee's trip to the bow, I find it hard to believe. I found a mention somewhere that not even all crew could go up on the forward part of the the ship. Only authorised crew could do that, so it seems highly unlikely that Candee made it to B deck, then into the 3rd class area and all the way to the bow without being stopped.

According to Pellegrino, Candee's cabin was on A deck. She did say her cabin was on the same deck as the "lounge" but the lounge which was next to the dining room where they had gathered after dinner. This is obviously the reception room on D deck. Elizabeth Lines also called the reception room a "lounge". So Candee's cabin was obviously some place on D deck. According to Pellegrino, when the collision occured, Candee grabbed a pole that went through her cabin, according to Candee's account, she grabber her bed post.

Daniel.
 
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Scott R. Andrews

Guest
Daniel,

Another thing occurs to me that might have made Helen Candee's trip to the forecastle head difficult, if not impossible. The two stairways to the forecastle from the well deck were removable, with a set of ladders permanently fitted to the bulkhead beneath them. I was always of the opinion that these were designed like this to be taken down and stowed away while at sea, and that they were only fitted in place while in port to make the work of the crew easier while handling lines, loading baggage and cargo, etc. Does anyone know what the practice was regarding these stairs?

If this was in fact the case, then the only access to the forecastle while at sea would have been via the two vertical ladders, or by passing through the crew's quarters and the machinery flat beneath the forecastle and climbing another ladder out the forward scuttle hatch. Again, this doesn't necessarily preclude HCC's trip to the bow from having happened, but this is clearly not the sort of thing that most ladies in 1912 would have been inclined to do.

Scott Andrews
 
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James Smith

Member
I posted this question earlier with no responses; I'll try one more time! Did anyone else notice that in a couple of stern shots in GOTA, the rudder appears turned hard over to the starboard--so hard that the trailing edge is now facing forward? Is this an illusion, or has the rudder really been forced into that position? (If so, I assume it would be due to the way the stern landed on the seafloor)

James Smith
 
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Randy Bryan Bigham

Member
James,

I am sorry that your question has gone unanswered. I'm afraid I didn't notice the stern shots except that it was a hopeless tangle. I am going again to see GOTA this weekend and will look for the scene you have mentioned.

In the meantime, one of the more technically inclined among our bunch may chime in to give you some better feedback on the interesting point you bring up.

My best,
Randy
 
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Ken Marschall

Member
James,

The rudder is perfectly straight. This is very clear in a scene in the "Ghosts" movie. Take a closer look at whatever imagery you were referring to.

Ken
 
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Pat Cook

Member
Now THAT'S what I would call a authoritive answer!

I finally got to see GotA and was absolutely blown away! As if some precurser, an omen if you like, early that morning, on a cable station, I watched a large part of "Creature from the Black Lagoon". I say this because, as many of you know, this was one of the early 3D flicks (And I remember when it came out!). The problem in those days, of course, is that Richard Carlson would be right in front of you and the wall behind him would be in the next state!

GotA, even for those NOT interested in the Titanic, is a treat for the eyes - you literally catch yourself ducking poles or trying to look over the ship's railing. I DID feel as it I could just reach over and touch the capstain or feel the stained glass. What a triumph for Cameron et al.

And, IMHO, the ghosts, walking the decks, reliving the crisis, were VERY effective. Although I DO wish we could've seen more of Titanic, I really wasn't put off by Bill Paxton (a good old Texas boy) or any of the other actors. Tickled to see Marschall as Ismay and Lynch as Andrews, tho'.

Best regards, all
Cook
 
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