Ghosts of the Titanic


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"Ghosts of the Titanic" came today, I have it in my hand right now, I'm so excited to read it!!!!
I probably won't ever get that book. But after you finish reading I have question for you regarding Alfred White if you don't mind. I read somewhere else that his journey to the boat deck thru the funnel is in that book. Would like to know what he said about it. Thanks.
 
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Oops. Never mind Cam. I went and re-read the link that Incony posted in another thread from Pelligrino and think I got my sources mixed up. Cheers.
 
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Cam Houseman

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Ok, two months late, here is my review of Charlie Pellegrino’s “Ghosts of the Titanic,” copied from Facebook while I was talking to Anthony El-Khouri, a friend of Charlie’s and was there in the 2005 expedition

Anthony El-Khouri
“it was super good! I think it’s my favorite too, because he goes way deeper into the wreck side (and you know I am all about the wreck
1f609.png
) I like how he backed up his downblast theory with GREAT examples, like the wooden beam from the Grand Staircase being a battering ram, and Lying on E-Deck. With the strength to impale one of the cabins, wow!
his theory on how the stern sank is a little outdated, I won’t give him any fault, as he hasn’t gone on the 2001 expedition yet and found the Watertight Door to the Turbine Room closed. People said he lied about being in the pool and finding the tiles, yet it clearly says in the appendix that that was one of the *objectives* of the 2001 expedition.
His description of the stern coming down is great, and where Captain Smith was during the first hour: down below, with the crew, tending to the ship. He and George (or was it Matt?) Tulloch had a great conversation about Captain Smith being a “hot rod” and deciding he wasn’t, is something I agree with. I wish people would get this silly idea he makes up facts out of their head, when there is no evidence for him doing so.
I’d say, 15/10 book!!”
 

Mike Bull2019

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That 'silly idea' is because he puts invented dialogue into the mouths of real, deceased people, amongst other things.
 

Mike Bull2019

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Erm yes, he has. Invented actions, too.

Try re-reading this thread- there are opinions on the book from some eminent Titanic researchers/enthusiasts of long standing, who know an awful lot more about it than you (currently) do. CP has some interesting ideas, but too much gets presented as 'fact' when it is nothing of the sort.

Go buy yourself a decent, up to date Titanic book- 'On A Sea Of Glass'- and come back once you've read it all!
 
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Cam Houseman

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Erm yes, he has. Invented actions, too.

Try re-reading this thread- there are opinions on the book from some eminent Titanic researchers/enthusiasts of long standing, who know an awful lot more about it than you (currently) do. CP has some interesting ideas, but too much gets presented as 'fact' when it is nothing of the sort.

Go buy yourself a decent, up to date Titanic book- 'On A Sea Of Glass'- and come back once you've read it all!
I'll reread the thread, sure
I think GOTT was very decent. he doesn't present anything as fact, but tries to come up with things that explain the breakup for example. He doesn't say in the book anything he says is fact, except when he was at the wreck and stuff, and the people during the sinking
 

Seumas

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Cam, the big problem that a hell of a lot of people have with Charles Pellegrino is his credibility.

It's rotten. In fact it stinks.

Always beware a "historian" who frequently claims to have found "exciting new evidence" for their claims .............. but who refuses to share the sources for this "evidence" with other historians. That is highly suspicious behaviour. Good, ethical historians never do that.

Then there is his deep involvement with "pseudo-history". In other words invented history, often involving legendary or near impossible to prove subject matters.

Pellegrino firmly believes in the existence of Atlantis for example and claims that evidence of it's existence is being supressed. The call of the cuckoo begins to sound ....

He took part in an expedition to Israel a number of years ago which claimed to have found the actual tomb of Jesus Christ.

Why didn't this jaw dropping "discovery" make headlines across the world ? It's quite simple, it was not the tomb of the historical Jesus Christ.

The evidence against it was as tall as Everest. A legion of archaeologists, historians and theologians (Christian and Jewish) from around the world were quick to point out hundreds of flaws in this "discovery".

A short while afterwards they carbon dated some of the remains found in the tomb and had to quietly admit that the findings were considerably outside of the Gospel's timeline.

There was also the extremely embarrassing case of his book on the bombing of Hiroshima.

In his book "Last Train from Hiroshima" Pellegrino claimed to have found "sensational evidence" of an deadly accident involving the pre-mission handling of "Little Boy" which killed at least one American serviceman and left dozens of others with radiation sickness. It was all rubbish.

He based all of it on a meeting with a Walter Mitty character. Classic amateur hour historian stuff. The "witness" in question was swiftly proved to be a fantasist whom it could be proved beyond all doubt had no involvement with the mission.

Yet again there were dozens of respected historians, archivists, scientists and (most awkwardly for Pellegrino) actual veterans of the mission who were able to tear apart Pellegrino's lamentable work.

The book had to be pulped by the publishers, the latter also wisely tore up their deal with Pellegrino for any future books and the man himself had to make a rather grovelling apology.

The final problem is Pellegrino's claims (which to this day he still makes) that he is the holder of a PhD. He is not. He is lying about that.

Pellegrino claims to have earned a PhD from the University of Wellington in New Zealand. False.

The University had rather an interesting story to tell about that. Although they confirmed that Pellegrino had indeed studied there in the eighties, his thesis which presented a deranged, wacky alternative to the accepted theory of evolution was rejected. His appeal against the decision was likewise rejected. Therefore he has no PhD.

This is why he is not taken seriously anymore and regarded as a bit of a a joke figure amongst the Titanic community.

Stick like glue to the likes of Walter Lord, Geoffrey Marcus, John P. Eaton, Charles Haas, Don Lynch, Paul Quinn, Michael Davie, Bill Wormstedt, Tad Fitch, J. Kent Lanyon, Paul Lee, Dan Parkes, Sam Halpern, Dave Gittins, Ioannis Georgiou, George Behe, Mark Chirnside etc and you can't go wrong. ;)
 
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IcySofter

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Erm yes, he has. Invented actions, too.

Try re-reading this thread- there are opinions on the book from some eminent Titanic researchers/enthusiasts of long standing, who know an awful lot more about it than you (currently) do. CP has some interesting ideas, but too much gets presented as 'fact' when it is nothing of the sort.

Go buy yourself a decent, up to date Titanic book- 'On A Sea Of Glass'- and come back once you've read it all!
So why is the book 'On a Sea of Glass' up to date, worth reading, etc? I'd like it if it's up to date. Who's the author? Really looking for a good reason to invest in a copy. Thanks in advance.
 

Seumas

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So why is the book 'On a Sea of Glass' up to date, worth reading, etc? I'd like it if it's up to date. Who's the author? Really looking for a good reason to invest in a copy. Thanks in advance.
"On A Sea of Glass" is beyond all doubt the most i) accurate, ii) in-depth and iii) slap, bang up to date study of the events from April 10th-April 15th 1912 written to date.

With new evidence regarding the sinking in all honesty being unlikely ever to emerge, it may prove impossible to actually ever top this book.

It's three co-authors Bill Wormstedt, Tad Fitch and J. Kent Layton are first rate researchers and all have impeccable credentials.

The book also includes a huge appendix of essays examine knotty issues that continue to be debated over and offer plausible solutions to them.

Supplement it with the analytic "Report Into the Loss of the SS Titanic" by Sam Halpern and many others. And the primary source compendium "On Board RMS Titanic by George Behe.

"On A Sea of Glass" only touches lightly on the whole Californian issue (the authors wanted to keep things confined to the decks of the Titanic) so if you want good books on that then I would recommend Paul Lee and Sam Halpern's works on the subject.
 

IcySofter

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"On A Sea of Glass" is beyond all doubt the most i) accurate, ii) in-depth and iii) slap, bang up to date study of the events from April 10th-April 15th 1912 written to date.

With new evidence regarding the sinking in all honesty being unlikely ever to emerge, it may prove impossible to actually ever top this book.getting this book

It's three co-authors Bill Wormstedt, Tad Fitch and J. Kent Layton are first rate researchers and all have impeccable credentials.

The book also includes a huge appendix of essays examine knotty issues that continue to be debated over and offer plausible solutions to them.

Supplement it with the analytic "Report Into the Loss of the SS Titanic" by Sam Halpern and many others. And the primary source compendium "On Board RMS Titanic by George Behe.

"On A Sea of Glass" only touches lightly on the whole Californian issue (the authors wanted to keep things confined to the decks of the Titanic) so if you want good books on that then I would recommend Paul Lee and Sam Halpern's works on the subject.
Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty clear on the Californian issue. I will be getting this book. I appreciated your mention of it not being likely that anything new will come to light so I hope it is quite all inclusive. I love accurate. Thanks again. Icy
 

Cam Houseman

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Cam, the big problem that a hell of a lot of people have with Charles Pellegrino is his credibility.

It's rotten. In fact it stinks.

Always beware a "historian" who frequently claims to have found "exciting new evidence" for their claims .............. but who refuses to share the sources for this "evidence" with other historians. That is highly suspicious behaviour. Good, ethical historians never do that.

Then there is his deep involvement with "pseudo-history". In other words invented history, often involving legendary or near impossible to prove subject matters.

Pellegrino firmly believes in the existence of Atlantis for example and claims that evidence of it's existence is being supressed. The call of the cuckoo begins to sound ....

He took part in an expedition to Israel a number of years ago which claimed to have found the actual tomb of Jesus Christ.

Why didn't this jaw dropping "discovery" make headlines across the world ? It's quite simple, it was not the tomb of the historical Jesus Christ.

The evidence against it was as tall as Everest. A legion of archaeologists, historians and theologians (Christian and Jewish) from around the world were quick to point out hundreds of flaws in this "discovery".

A short while afterwards they carbon dated some of the remains found in the tomb and had to quietly admit that the findings were considerably outside of the Gospel's timeline.

There was also the extremely embarrassing case of his book on the bombing of Hiroshima.

In his book "Last Train from Hiroshima" Pellegrino claimed to have found "sensational evidence" of an deadly accident involving the pre-mission handling of "Little Boy" which killed at least one American serviceman and left dozens of others with radiation sickness. It was all rubbish.

He based all of it on a meeting with a Walter Mitty character. Classic amateur hour historian stuff. The "witness" in question was swiftly proved to be a fantasist whom it could be proved beyond all doubt had no involvement with the mission.

Yet again there were dozens of respected historians, archivists, scientists and (most awkwardly for Pellegrino) actual veterans of the mission who were able to tear apart Pellegrino's lamentable work.

The book had to be pulped by the publishers, the latter also wisely tore up their deal with Pellegrino for any future books and the man himself had to make a rather grovelling apology.

The final problem is Pellegrino's claims (which to this day he still makes) that he is the holder of a PhD. He is not. He is lying about that.

Pellegrino claims to have earned a PhD from the University of Wellington in New Zealand. False.

The University had rather an interesting story to tell about that. Although they confirmed that Pellegrino had indeed studied there in the eighties, his thesis which presented a deranged, wacky alternative to the accepted theory of evolution was rejected. His appeal against the decision was likewise rejected. Therefore he has no PhD.

This is why he is not taken seriously anymore and regarded as a bit of a a joke figure amongst the Titanic community.

Stick like glue to the likes of Walter Lord, Geoffrey Marcus, John P. Eaton, Charles Haas, Don Lynch, Paul Quinn, Michael Davie, Bill Wormstedt, Tad Fitch, J. Kent Lanyon, Paul Lee, Dan Parkes, Sam Halpern, Dave Gittins, Ioannis Georgiou, George Behe, Mark Chirnside etc and you can't go wrong. ;)
I also found the Wkipedia article you looked at. None of it has substantial evidence.

yes, those authors are amazing. Pellegrino is too.
how would you feel if you wrote a book, and some ripped it apart for "being fake" and putting words in fake people's mouth? you'd feel pretty terrible, huh.
Some crazy people even say he never went to Titanic in the first place. Wow!

Also,

none of those people you listed that Charlie has been with have discredited him

if you can find solid evidence and present it, I'll hear you out
 

Seumas

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Cam, how is none of it substantial evidence ? On the contrary it is overwhelming.

The man is a charlatan who pulled the wool over peoples eyes, got found out and finally got a taste of his own medicine.

Your going to be really hard pressed indeed finding people in the Titanic community who take this individual seriously.

His involvement with pseudo-historical hunts for Atlantis and the tomb of the historical Jesus Christ, the fraudulent conspiracy claims in "Last Train from Hiroshima", repeated failures to disclose sources to other researchers and telling lies about his qualifications destroyed his credibility.

Btw you'll find posts on this forum by Bill Wormstedt, Tad Fitch, Dave Gittins et al listing errors in Pellegrino's work and their concerns about these sources he claims to have but refuses to share with anyone. Remember, a real historian always shares their sources.
 
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Cam Houseman

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"On A Sea of Glass" is beyond all doubt the most i) accurate, ii) in-depth and iii) slap, bang up to date study of the events from April 10th-April 15th 1912 written to date.

With new evidence regarding the sinking in all honesty being unlikely ever to emerge, it may prove impossible to actually ever top this book.

It's three co-authors Bill Wormstedt, Tad Fitch and J. Kent Layton are first rate researchers and all have impeccable credentials.

The book also includes a huge appendix of essays examine knotty issues that continue to be debated over and offer plausible solutions to them.

Supplement it with the analytic "Report Into the Loss of the SS Titanic" by Sam Halpern and many others. And the primary source compendium "On Board RMS Titanic by George Behe.

"On A Sea of Glass" only touches lightly on the whole Californian issue (the authors wanted to keep things confined to the decks of the Titanic) so if you want good books on that then I would recommend Paul Lee and Sam Halpern's works on the subject.
A slight add on:

Seumas, I'm sorry if I sounded rude.

I just think, for someone of your intellect and skill, it is not wise to base someone's character on a wikipedia page proven to be false

take care, and good night :)
 

Cam Houseman

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Cam, how is none of it substantial evidence ? On the contrary it is overwhelming.

The man is a charlatan who pulled the wool over peoples eyes, got found out and finally got a taste of his own medicine.

Your going to be really hard pressed indeed finding people in the Titanic community who take this individual seriously.

His involvement with pseudo-historical hunts for Atlantis and the tomb of the historical Jesus Christ, the fraudulent conspiracy claims in "Last Train from Hiroshima", repeated failures to disclose sources to other researchers and telling lies about his qualifications destroyed his credibility.

Btw you'll find posts on this forum by Bill Wormstedt, Tad Fitch, Dave Gittins et al listing errors in Pellegrino's work and their concerns about these sources he claims to have but refuses to share with anyone. Remember, a real historian always shares their sources.
Do you have a link to threads where this happened? Have Mr. Wormstedt, Tad Fitch, and Mr. Gittens worked with him?

I've seen a photo where people make things up and got the Wikipedia editors to fall for it

I've gotten to know him. If you can look past the fake news, you'd like him.

have you ever read one of his books?

Actually, he has a 30 page source list in "Farewell Titanic: her Final Legacy". I'll even get the page numbers if you think I'm lying

Actually, the tomb of Christ exists, he was real, whether you believe he was just a man, or a deity. Even Jews acknowledge he existed but do not worship him.
 

Mr. Titanic

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Cam, the big problem that a hell of a lot of people have with Charles Pellegrino is his credibility.

It's rotten. In fact it stinks.

Always beware a "historian" who frequently claims to have found "exciting new evidence" for their claims .............. but who refuses to share the sources for this "evidence" with other historians. That is highly suspicious behaviour. Good, ethical historians never do that.

Then there is his deep involvement with "pseudo-history". In other words invented history, often involving legendary or near impossible to prove subject matters.

Pellegrino firmly believes in the existence of Atlantis for example and claims that evidence of it's existence is being supressed. The call of the cuckoo begins to sound ....

He took part in an expedition to Israel a number of years ago which claimed to have found the actual tomb of Jesus Christ.

Why didn't this jaw dropping "discovery" make headlines across the world ? It's quite simple, it was not the tomb of the historical Jesus Christ.

The evidence against it was as tall as Everest. A legion of archaeologists, historians and theologians (Christian and Jewish) from around the world were quick to point out hundreds of flaws in this "discovery".

A short while afterwards they carbon dated some of the remains found in the tomb and had to quietly admit that the findings were considerably outside of the Gospel's timeline.

There was also the extremely embarrassing case of his book on the bombing of Hiroshima.

In his book "Last Train from Hiroshima" Pellegrino claimed to have found "sensational evidence" of an deadly accident involving the pre-mission handling of "Little Boy" which killed at least one American serviceman dead and left dozens of others with radiation sickness. It was all rubbish.

He based all of it on a meeting with a Walter Mitty character. Classic amateur hour historian stuff. The "witness" in question was swiftly proved to be a fantasist whom it could be proved beyond all doubt had no involvement with the mission.

Yet again there were dozens of respected historians, archivists, scientists and (most awkwardly for Pellegrino) actual veterans of the mission who were able to tear apart Pellegrino's lamentable work.

The book had to be pulped by the publishers, the latter also wisely tore up their deal with Pellegrino for any future books and the man himself had to make a rather grovelling apology.

The final problem is Pellegrino's claims (which to this day he still makes) that he is the holder of a PhD. He is not. He is lying about that.

Pellegrino claims to have earned a PhD from the University of Wellington in New Zealand. False.

The University had rather an interesting story to tell about that. Although they confirmed that Pellegrino had indeed studied there in the eighties, his thesis which presented a deranged, wacky alternative to the accepted theory of evolution was rejected. His appeal against the decision was likewise rejected. Therefore he has no PhD.

This is why he is not taken seriously anymore and regarded as a bit of a a joke figure amongst the Titanic community.

Stick like glue to the likes of Walter Lord, Geoffrey Marcus, John P. Eaton, Charles Haas, Don Lynch, Paul Quinn, Michael Davie, Bill Wormstedt, Tad Fitch, J. Kent Lanyon, Paul Lee, Dan Parkes, Sam Halpern, Dave Gittins, Ioannis Georgiou, George Behe, Mark Chirnside etc and you can't go wrong. ;)
Charles Pellegrino shared his entire research file with leading Titanic historian Don Lynch when they met on the Keldysh for James Cameron's 2001 expedition. He is also in the process of digitizing that file to share with future researchers, which he has already done in some instances and has been credited for it.

Pellegrino is not the originator of the Thera/Santorini Atlantis theory, although he did write a successful book, Unearthing Atlantis, that chronicles the excavations in Akrotiri, Thera (spearheaded by Dr. Spyridon Marinatos and his daughter Nanno) which are gradually revealing why the Atlantis theory, first proposed by K. T. Frost in 1913 and E. S. Balch in 1917 (and commenced with Sir Arthur Evans's discovery in Knossos, Crete in 1900) is credible. Pellegrino credits them all in his book. There appears to be some ignorance in the West regarding how oral tradition is passed down in the Mediterranean, and how events and places once believed to be myth are in fact embellished realities. This holds true for Troy for example, believed to be recently unearthed in Turkey, which Pellegrino was not involved in, but is similar. There is nothing disingenuous about using evidence to propose a hypothesis and eventually a theory. That is the foundation of the scientific method. This is what separates forward-thinkers from people re-hashing the same tried and true (and exhausted) information. If you have not read Unearthing Atlantis, I recommend the James Cameron documentary "Atlantis Rising" for a brief introduction to that field. Nanno Marinatos is also an invaluable source. The Atlantis theory involves more than just Pellegrino I'm afraid, but many archaeologists with whom he has collaborated. It's purely a book about volcanology and archaeology, following up into the 1980s (and more recently James Cameron's 2016 expedition).

The Jesus Family Tomb discovery did make headlines in 2007. Multiple televised interviews were conducted, and many conspiracy theories and hoaxes were raised to metastasize outrage. False claims that the scientists discovered bones (no bones or body were discovered) were perpetuated. The smear campaign against the project resulted in unfounded outrage. You can still find interviews of Simcha Jacobivici defending the effort, which he lead. Beliefs of divinity aside, Christians acknowledge Jesus was buried in a tomb following the crucifixion for 3 days. That physical place exists somewhere in Israel - and looking for it is archaeology. You are welcome to believe the Talpiot tomb was not that place, but that does not preclude the scientists from reporting their findings and hypothesis, which indeed made headlines.

Please provide evidence from a primary source for the claim that carbon dating refuted the find. Not a cursory Google search, but reputable and/or peer reviewed publications.

There is no "Walter Mitty" mentioned in any of Pellegrino's books. Such a person does not exist. You are referring to the butchered names of Father Matthias and John MacQuitty, who are mentioned, and claiming they are Joe Fuoco, who presented convincing but fraudulent evidence exaggerating his war record to Dr. Pellegrino and the editor in order to have a place in his book. You have confused three different people. How familiar are you with this situation? Regardless, once Fuoco was exposed, Pellegrino did the honorable thing by apologizing, revising his book and releasing that corrected version as "To Hell and Back: The Last Train From Hiroshima" in 2015. Many first editions of books feature errors, which sometimes makes them collectibles for people. Dr. Pellegrino considered a dying veteran's evidence, but it doesn't make him the dishonest one. And it doesn't refute the countless, meticulously reported accounts of genuine Hiroshima (and Nagasaki) survivors, including the remarkable double survivors. Pellegrino owned his mistake and corrected it.

I find it amusing when people comment with authority on Dr. Pellegrino's PhD, since I had direct involvement with it. He has discussed the situation time and again in his books. How he was subjected to an ad hoc tribunal lead by envious professors that refused to be upstaged by one of their own students. Pellegrino had suggested bio-morphing dinosaurs from insects fossilized in amber (published in OMNI, 1985) which Michael Crichton proceeded to credit for inspiring his international best-seller Jurassic Park. Dr. Pellegrino published Time Gate and Darwin's Universe, suggesting moons such as Europa and Titan may feature liquid oceans (The Europa Theory) and should be investigated by submarines someday. As with all novel ideas, the Jurassic Park Recipe and Europa theory were met with extreme derision by disgruntled professors, who insisted submarines could never fly (note: this was long before PCR, planned Dragonfly Europa clipper of 2024, etc.). Pellegrino always resented not having published under a pen name instead, while a student. Anyone who has pursued a doctorate understands the politics of academia, and how a sour professor can plagiarize or sabotage promising students (sometimes leading to suicides). Sexism is rampant, all sorts of horror stories that I won't get into here. Charlie's Ph.D. is (and in 2010 was) every bit as real as his MS and FBIS. It was also officially certified in the U.S. (Brookhaven National Laboratory), as was required for all Common Wealth MDs and PhDs in the early 1980s, as being up to the American Standard.

That said, you may not know that as a student, I requested Pellegrino's PhD from Victoria University of Wellington directly through the research office at my university. I was informed VUW would need to create a digital profile for him, as his PhD was from the 80's, and they would digitize and upload his thesis to their online catalog after confirming with the Registrar. Weeks passed by and I received an email confirming "Dr. Pellegrino's" alumni profile had been created by the library, and I could download his published thesis from the enclosed link. Not only did the link lead to an alumni profile in VUW's library archive, the Registrar's archive reported Pellegrino's PhD as "Degree Awarded" status, which is obvious, since his thesis clearly existed in their database as digitized and downloadable (and I did download it, too) as well as published in a leading peer-reviewed journal of Zoology (Crustaceana). The Registrar is the official source of unadulterated student records - they played no part in academic politics, and reported the truth. I have screenshots of this page, before word got out and the entire page was 404'ed, which we all found shady. I knew right then never to doubt Dr. Pellegrino, even if ever tempted. I can post the screen shots here for any objective members to see as proof.

Parks Stephenson came out recently in support of Pellegrino's downblast theory. Ballard reported Dr. Pellegrino's theory in his famous and best-selling book "The Discovery of the Titanic" in 1987. Don Lynch, Ken Marschall, James Cameron, Dr. Robert Ballard, George Tulloch and many leading and renowned experts in this field support Dr. Pellegrino's forward-thinking ideas. The testimonies of these professionals will always take precedence over superficial Google searches and baseless slander on forums.

Here is Dr. Pellegrino's opinion on all this:

The claim that I believe in the ancient Atlantis story has been lifted by this person off the internet, without fact checking at all. Please read my book (Unearthing Atlantis: An Archaeological Odyssey). It's purely a book about volcanology and archaeology, following up into the 1980s (and more recently James Cameron's 2016 expedition) the work of K.T. Frost and Spyridon Marinates, and his daughter Nano Marinates. I've never made a claim RE Atlantis, "evidence of its existence is being suppressed." NOTE: People who believe and/or write about the crazier ideas RE the origin of Plato's Atlantis, and not the real-life Minoan archaeology/forensic archaeology (RE, volcanology) do not get invited to lecture on the subject at Fermilab and M.I.T. (as I have).

One source to go to, regarding the Talipot tomb system, is the scientific reports in James H. Charlesworth, The 4th Princeton Symposium on Judaism and Christian Origins (The Tomb of Jesus and his Family? Exploring Ancient Jewish Tombs Near Jerusalem's Walls), Cambridge, U.K. 2013. My part in the project was development of the Patina Fingerprinting Method, in the NY crime lab - now used and studied around the world for the repatriation of looted artifacts to their countries of origin. A further scientific source is James Tabor's works, and his discussion forum out of University of North Carolina.

The Pellegrino/Lord [Titanic] file is available widely. It was not only copied to Don Lynch for his use but is available through the Titanic Historical Society and is being copied in its entirety for my website.

The claim of carbon dating in the Talpiot tomb being outside the 1st century AD seems to be entirely made up. Further, patina fingerprinting is also a corroborative dating method.

"Last Train": Joe Fuoco was the witness, actually on Titian Island and actually a flight engineer in August 1945 and he exaggerated part of his war record and was removed along with all of his observations (a total of less than five pages). Harold Clayton Urey had said years earlier that something had gone wrong with the bomb. There was however no radiation release on the island. (In 2010, this was still unsettled: Certainly no significant on-island release: I now believe it was Parson's practice maneuvers throughout the night before, with the detonation plugs, and not Luis Alvarez with the polonium inserts, who was seen: One, mistaken for the other by witnesses.) Luis Alvarez had also spoken of problems with the bomb itself on Tinian Island. This I learned from his son, Walter, with whom I had been corresponding from New Zealand on "the dinosaur, the asteroid, and nuclear winter." The Hiroshima bomb was compromised and detonated with only about 1/3 its intended yield (final yield: 10 - 12.5 kt) as opposed to the Nagasaki weapon (27 - 30Kt). The "big discovery" in "Last Train," and the focal point of the book, was not anything to do with the bomb but, rather, the 30+ people who survived the atomic bombings of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There is nothing embarrassing about "Last Train" except the one American veteran who exaggerated and placed himself in a plane at least 120 miles closer to Hiroshima than he actually was on the morning of the Hiroshima bombing.

My Ph.D.: is (and in 2010 was) every bit as real as my MS and FBIS. It was also officially certified here in the U.S. (Brookhaven National Laboratory), as was required for all Common Wealth MDs and PhDs in the early 1980s, as being up to the American Standard. (My Ph.D. at Victoria University was held for years as granted but under "RESTRICTED Status" following a trial under an ad-hoc committee that included Evangelicals as judges: These participants were primarily angry about the 1984 publication of what is now known as the Jurassic Park Recipe - - for which the New Zealand government now mints an annual commemorative coin, memorializing the origin of Jurassic Park in New Zealand). In 2010, one need have looked no farther than an advertising pamphlet published by Victoria University by Barnes and Noble - listing me as #17 among the university's most famed graduates, specifically for inventing the Jurassic Park recipe. Further: When I left New Zealand in May of 1982, I was already working on my post-doctoral research, RE a government grant approved by Victoria University Registrar S.F. Perrott. One is not awarded a post doctoral research grant unless they already have a doctorate. Further: The 2010 hoaxes were perpetrated first on Wikipedia by a guy named David Brennan - who had been demanding since 2007 that James Cameron and I make a documentary about how America attacked itself on 9/11. In 2010 he was accusing me of being one of the 9/11 terrorists (for having allegedly helped to fake my contribution to the 9/11 report, and to have supposedly covered up evidence of thermite charges used in a "controlled demolition" of the Twin Towers and Bldg. 7). You may also want to look up his ideas about vaccinations, his pro-rape ideas against gay women - - - and , oh yeah: Q.

The ad hoc tribunal comprised members who had a problem with anyone writing about evolution itself. Dr. Richard Bliss (sent by the Rev. Jerry Falwell), who sat on one of these ad hoc tribunals, and against me in particular, insisted that the Earth was only 6,000 years old. The 1982-1984 ad hoc committee at VUW was in favor of what, at that time, was called "scientific creationism." I should also demand of this writer that he find out more about what the ad hoc committees in New Zealand eventually degenerated into before they were finally disbanded and reparations paid to their targets. Have him look up these words: "Ad hoc committees... New Zealand's Holocaust Denial Problem." This person should be ashamed, though I'm sure he is not.
 
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Seumas

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A slight add on:

Seumas, I'm sorry if I sounded rude.

I just think, for someone of your intellect and skill, it is not wise to base someone's character on a wikipedia page proven to be false

take care, and good night :)

That's perfectly OK Cam.

I am not an intelligent man and I have no skills. I am just a humble Titanic enthusiast like yourself.

It's the likes of Sam Halpern, Dave Gittins, Dan Parkes, Ioannis Georgiou and Mark Chirnside amongst others on this forum you should read and take in everything they say.

They can also spot a ringer among the Titanic community easily too.

Do you have a link to threads where this happened? Have Mr. Wormstedt, Tad Fitch, and Mr. Gittens worked with him?

I've seen a photo where people make things up and got the Wikipedia editors to fall for it

I've gotten to know him. If you can look past the fake news, you'd like him.

have you ever read one of his books?

Actually, he has a 30 page source list in "Farewell Titanic: her Final Legacy". I'll even get the page numbers if you think I'm lying

Actually, the tomb of Christ exists, he was real, whether you believe he was just a man, or a deity. Even Jews acknowledge he existed but do not worship him.
Firstly, I do know that Jesus Christ certainly existed and I am in fact a Christian (albeit not a very good one) and as such accept him as my Lord and Saviour.

Secondly, the tomb of Jesus Christ has never been conclusively identified. Archaeologists, historians and theologian cannot agree on the "Garden Tomb" or that which exists in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

Thirdly, what they can agree on is that the expedition which dear delightful Mr Pellegrino was a part of and which claimed to have found the physical remains of Jesus Christ, or indeed that of his supposed family was complete rubbish.

With regard now to the Titanic which we all are here for ....

You can find what several trusted and respected Titanic historians think about Mr Pellegrino and his work (from years ago when this forum was really busy) by using the search function or even by contacting them directly.

Mr Pellegrino is someone I have no time for. The late John P. Eaton on the other hand was the model of what a Titanic historian should be.

Cam, I really hate to sound patronising but I speak from painful experience here.

You are sixteen. Believe it or not I was sixteen too once (I'm of "Generation Y" and not yet thirty)

When I was your age I was inclined to easily trust and admire some people (both my own age and older) half of whom where plain bad others just fools. With hindsight I am now embarrassed to say I wasted my time with them.

Conversely the people I should have looked up to and listened to and who were trying to help me, I in fact cruelly scorned.

It is one of my biggest regrets and something I feel deeply ashamed about. And you know the funny thing is, those people I stupidly scored are actually now my best friends (In the last couple of years I even got them interested in the Titanic !) and the people I once liked and admired I have no wish to ever see or hear from again.

All I am saying is that as you get older you will begin to see things differently and as such your whole viewpoint will dramatically change. I suspect that will happen to you just as it did to me.

Let's leave it there.
 
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Mr. Titanic

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That's perfectly OK Cam.

I am not an intelligent man and I have no skills. I am just a humble Titanic enthusiast like yourself.

It's the likes of Sam Halpern, Dave Gittins, Dan Parkes, Ioannis Georgiou and Mark Chirnside amongst others on this forum you should read and take in everything they say.

They can also spot a ringer among the Titanic community easily too.


Firstly, I do know that Jesus Christ certainly existed and I am in fact a Christian (albeit not a very good one) and as such accept him as my Lord and Saviour.

Secondly, the tomb of Jesus Christ has never been conclusively identified. Archaeologists, historians and theologian cannot agree on the "Garden Tomb" or that which exists in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.

Thirdly, what they can agree on is that the expedition which dear delightful Mr Pellegrino was a part of and which claimed to have found the physical remains of Jesus Christ, or indeed that of his supposed family was complete rubbish.

With regard now to the Titanic which we all are here for ....

You can find what several trusted and respected Titanic historians think about Mr Pellegrino and his work (from years ago when this forum was really busy) by using the search function or even by contacting them directly.

Mr Pellegrino is someone I have no time for. The late John P. Eaton on the other hand was the model of what a Titanic historian should be.

Cam, I really hate to sound patronising but I speak from painful experience here.

You are sixteen. Believe it or not I was sixteen too once (I'm of "Generation Y" and not yet thirty)

When I was your age I was inclined to easily trust and admire some people (both my own age and older) half of whom where plain bad others just fools. With hindsight I am now embarrassed to say I wasted my time with them.

Conversely the people I should have looked up to and listened to and who were trying to help me, I in fact cruelly scorned.

It is one of my biggest regrets and something I feel deeply ashamed about. And you know the funny thing is, those people I stupidly scored are actually now my best friends (In the last couple of years I even got them interested in the Titanic !) and the people I once liked and admired I have no wish to ever see or hear from again.

All I am saying is that as you get older you will begin to see things differently and as such your whole viewpoint will dramatically change. I suspect that will happen to you just as it did to me.

Let's leave it there.
It’s Dr. Pellegrino. Superficial web searches are clearly not sufficient for writing Titanic books, considering how critical this discussion has become regarding the credibility of sources. If it’s insufficient for a book, then it’s insufficient to condemn and slander a veteran Titanic explorer and best-selling author, with a whole host of support from other professionals in the field, who are also among Dr. Pellegrino’s collaborators and peers.

The only valid criticism I’ve seen of Pellegrino, presented in a woefully misinformed and misconstrued manner here, is that he trusted a veteran that exaggerated his war record to appear in a Hiroshima book for five pages out of hundreds of pages (filled with survivor accounts). An error that was rectified with a corrected edition. He who is without sin cast the first stone.

If Dr. Pellegrino isn’t your thing, that’s your prerogative, but he is a respected and accomplished scientist, historian and author. If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t add negativity to the world.
 
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Cam Houseman

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Charles Pellegrino shared his entire research file with leading Titanic historian Don Lynch when they met on the Keldysh for James Cameron's 2001 expedition. He is also in the process of digitizing that file to share with future researchers, which he has already done in some instances and has been credited for it.

Pellegrino is not the originator of the Thera/Santorini Atlantis theory, although he did write a successful book, Unearthing Atlantis, that chronicles the excavations in Akrotiri, Thera (spearheaded by Dr. Spyridon Marinatos and his daughter Nanno) which are gradually revealing why the Atlantis theory, first proposed by K. T. Frost in 1913 and E. S. Balch in 1917 (and commenced with Sir Arthur Evans's discovery in Knossos, Crete in 1900) is credible. Pellegrino credits them all in his book. There appears to be some ignorance in the West regarding how oral tradition is passed down in the Mediterranean, and how events and places once believed to be myth are in fact embellished realities. This holds true for Troy for example, believed to be recently unearthed in Turkey, which Pellegrino was not involved in, but is similar. There is nothing disingenuous about using evidence to propose a hypothesis and eventually a theory. That is the foundation of the scientific method. This is what separates forward-thinkers from people re-hashing the same tried and true (and exhausted) information. If you have not read Unearthing Atlantis, I recommend the James Cameron documentary "Atlantis Rising" for a brief introduction to that field. Nanno Marinatos is also an invaluable source. The Atlantis theory involves more than just Pellegrino I'm afraid, but many archaeologists with whom he has collaborated. It's purely a book about volcanology and archaeology, following up into the 1980s (and more recently James Cameron's 2016 expedition).

The Jesus Family Tomb discovery did make headlines in 2007. Multiple televised interviews were conducted, and many conspiracy theories and hoaxes were raised to metastasize outrage. False claims that the scientists discovered bones (no bones or body were discovered) were perpetuated. The smear campaign against the project resulted in unfounded outrage. You can still find interviews of Simcha Jacobivici defending the effort, which he lead. Beliefs of divinity aside, Christians acknowledge Jesus was buried in a tomb following the crucifixion for 3 days. That physical place exists somewhere in Israel - and looking for it is archaeology. You are welcome to believe the Talpiot tomb was not that place, but that does not preclude the scientists from reporting their findings and hypothesis, which indeed made headlines.

Please provide evidence from a primary source for the claim that carbon dating refuted the find. Not a cursory Google search, but reputable and/or peer reviewed publications.

There is no "Walter Mitty" mentioned in any of Pellegrino's books. Such a person does not exist. You are referring to the butchered names of Father Matthias and John MacQuitty, who are mentioned, and claiming they are Joe Fuoco, who presented convincing but fraudulent evidence exaggerating his war record to Dr. Pellegrino and the editor in order to have a place in his book. You have confused three different people. How familiar are you with this situation? Regardless, once Fuoco was exposed, Pellegrino did the honorable thing by apologizing, revising his book and releasing that corrected version as "To Hell and Back: The Last Train From Hiroshima" in 2015. Many first editions of books feature errors, which sometimes makes them collectibles for people. Dr. Pellegrino considered a dying veteran's evidence, but it doesn't make him the dishonest one. And it doesn't refute the countless, meticulously reported accounts of genuine Hiroshima (and Nagasaki) survivors, including the remarkable double survivors. Pellegrino owned his mistake and corrected it.

I find it amusing when people comment with authority on Dr. Pellegrino's PhD, since I had direct involvement with it. He has discussed the situation time and again in his books. How he was subjected to an ad hoc tribunal lead by envious professors that refused to be upstaged by one of their own students. Pellegrino had suggested bio-morphing dinosaurs from insects fossilized in amber (published in OMNI, 1985) which Michael Crichton proceeded to credit for inspiring his international best-seller Jurassic Park. Dr. Pellegrino published Time Gate and Darwin's Universe, suggesting moons such as Europa and Titan may feature liquid oceans (The Europa Theory) and should be investigated by submarines someday. As with all novel ideas, the Jurassic Park Recipe and Europa theory were met with extreme derision by disgruntled professors, who insisted submarines could never fly (note: this was long before PCR, planned Dragonfly Europa clipper of 2024, etc.). Pellegrino always resented not having published under a pen name instead, while a student. Anyone who has pursued a doctorate understands the politics of academia, and how a sour professor can plagiarize or sabotage promising students (sometimes leading to suicides). Sexism is rampant, all sorts of horror stories that I won't get into here. Charlie's Ph.D. is (and in 2010 was) every bit as real as his MS and FBIS. It was also officially certified in the U.S. (Brookhaven National Laboratory), as was required for all Common Wealth MDs and PhDs in the early 1980s, as being up to the American Standard.

That said, you may not know that as a student, I requested Pellegrino's PhD from Victoria University of Wellington directly through the research office at my university. I was informed VUW would need to create a digital profile for him, as his PhD was from the 80's, and they would digitize and upload his thesis to their online catalog after confirming with the Registrar. Weeks passed by and I received an email confirming "Dr. Pellegrino's" alumni profile had been created by the library, and I could download his published thesis from the enclosed link. Not only did the link lead to an alumni profile in VUW's library archive, the Registrar's archive reported Pellegrino's PhD as "Degree Awarded" status, which is obvious, since his thesis clearly existed in their database as digitized and downloadable (and I did download it, too) as well as published in a leading peer-reviewed journal of Zoology (Crustaceana). The Registrar is the official source of unadulterated student records - they played no part in academic politics, and reported the truth. I have screenshots of this page, before word got out and the entire page was 404'ed, which we all found shady. I knew right then never to doubt Dr. Pellegrino, even if ever tempted. I can post the screen shots here for any objective members to see as proof.

Parks Stephenson came out recently in support of Pellegrino's downblast theory. Ballard reported Dr. Pellegrino's theory in his famous and best-selling book "The Discovery of the Titanic" in 1987. Don Lynch, Ken Marschall, James Cameron, Dr. Robert Ballard, George Tulloch and many leading and renowned experts in this field support Dr. Pellegrino's forward-thinking ideas. The testimonies of these professionals will always take precedence over superficial Google searches and baseless slander on forums.

Here is Dr. Pellegrino's opinion on all this:

The claim that I believe in the ancient Atlantis story has been lifted by this person off the internet, without fact checking at all. Please read my book (Unearthing Atlantis: An Archaeological Odyssey). It's purely a book about volcanology and archaeology, following up into the 1980s (and more recently James Cameron's 2016 expedition) the work of K.T. Frost and Spyridon Marinates, and his daughter Nano Marinates. I've never made a claim RE Atlantis, "evidence of its existence is being suppressed." NOTE: People who believe and/or write about the crazier ideas RE the origin of Plato's Atlantis, and not the real-life Minoan archaeology/forensic archaeology (RE, volcanology) do not get invited to lecture on the subject at Fermilab and M.I.T. (as I have).

One source to go to, regarding the Talipot tomb system, is the scientific reports in James H. Charlesworth, The 4th Princeton Symposium on Judaism and Christian Origins (The Tomb of Jesus and his Family? Exploring Ancient Jewish Tombs Near Jerusalem's Walls), Cambridge, U.K. 2013. My part in the project was development of the Patina Fingerprinting Method, in the NY crime lab - now used and studied around the world for the repatriation of looted artifacts to their countries of origin. A further scientific source is James Tabor's works, and his discussion forum out of University of North Carolina.

The Pellegrino/Lord [Titanic] file is available widely. It was not only copied to Don Lynch for his use but is available through the Titanic Historical Society and is being copied in its entirety for my website.

The claim of carbon dating in the Talpiot tomb being outside the 1st century AD seems to be entirely made up. Further, patina fingerprinting is also a corroborative dating method.

"Last Train": Joe Fuoco was the witness, actually on Titian Island and actually a flight engineer in August 1945 and he exaggerated part of his war record and was removed along with all of his observations (a total of less than five pages). Harold Clayton Urey had said years earlier that something had gone wrong with the bomb. There was however no radiation release on the island. (In 2010, this was still unsettled: Certainly no significant on-island release: I now believe it was Parson's practice maneuvers throughout the night before, with the detonation plugs, and not Luis Alvarez with the polonium inserts, who was seen: One, mistaken for the other by witnesses.) Luis Alvarez had also spoken of problems with the bomb itself on Tinian Island. This I learned from his son, Walter, with whom I had been corresponding from New Zealand on "the dinosaur, the asteroid, and nuclear winter." The Hiroshima bomb was compromised and detonated with only about 1/3 its intended yield (final yield: 10 - 12.5 kt) as opposed to the Nagasaki weapon (27 - 30Kt). The "big discovery" in "Last Train," and the focal point of the book, was not anything to do with the bomb but, rather, the 30+ people who survived the atomic bombings of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There is nothing embarrassing about "Last Train" except the one American veteran who exaggerated and placed himself in a plane at least 120 miles closer to Hiroshima than he actually was on the morning of the Hiroshima bombing.

My Ph.D.: is (and in 2010 was) every bit as real as my MS and FBIS. It was also officially certified here in the U.S. (Brookhaven National Laboratory), as was required for all Common Wealth MDs and PhDs in the early 1980s, as being up to the American Standard. (My Ph.D. at Victoria University was held for years as granted but under "RESTRICTED Status" following a trial under an ad-hoc committee that included Evangelicals as judges: These participants were primarily angry about the 1984 publication of what is now known as the Jurassic Park Recipe - - for which the New Zealand government now mints an annual commemorative coin, memorializing the origin of Jurassic Park in New Zealand). In 2010, one need have looked no farther than an advertising pamphlet published by Victoria University by Barnes and Noble - listing me as #17 among the university's most famed graduates, specifically for inventing the Jurassic Park recipe. Further: When I left New Zealand in May of 1982, I was already working on my post-doctoral research, RE a government grant approved by Victoria University Registrar S.F. Perrott. One is not awarded a post doctoral research grant unless they already have a doctorate. Further: The 2010 hoaxes were perpetrated first on Wikipedia by a guy named David Brennan - who had been demanding since 2007 that James Cameron and I make a documentary about how America attacked itself on 9/11. In 2010 he was accusing me of being one of the 9/11 terrorists (for having allegedly helped to fake my contribution to the 9/11 report, and to have supposedly covered up evidence of thermite charges used in a "controlled demolition" of the Twin Towers and Bldg. 7). You may also want to look up his ideas about vaccinations, his pro-rape ideas against gay women - - - and , oh yeah: Q.

The ad hoc tribunal comprised members who had a problem with anyone writing about evolution itself. Dr. Richard Bliss (sent by the Rev. Jerry Falwell), who sat on one of these ad hoc tribunals, and against me in particular, insisted that the Earth was only 6,000 years old. The 1982-1984 ad hoc committee at VUW was in favor of what, at that time, was called "scientific creationism." I should also demand of this writer that he find out more about what the ad hoc committees in New Zealand eventually degenerated into before they were finally disbanded and reparations paid to their targets. Have him look up these words: "Ad hoc committees... New Zealand's Holocaust Denial Problem." This person should be ashamed, though I'm sure he is not.
wonderfully said!
hopefully this can clear his name, and finally be respected
 
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