God himself couldbnt sink this ship


Kat

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Jun 9, 2011
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Doe's anyone believe that God sank the Titanic? or was it just human Error? I've been wondering about this for along time, your thoughts please. Kat. D
 
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Michael Gibbs

Guest
As I'm an atheist, I don't really believe in that theory at all...

People always coming up with these new, elaborate theories to explain why the Titanic sank. There's the one about the brittle steel, bad rivets and the small rudder! People tend to forget that the Titanic's sister ship, the Olympic, was designed the same and was probably made of the same steel. If the Titanic was so poorly made, why didn't the Olympic sink too?

Bottom line is that, elaborate and revisionist theories aside, the Titanic was built as good as she could of been in her day (she could of been designed better). She looks dated now, because since she sailed in 1912 standards of ship building have increased. She sank simply because she hit an iceberg due to crew error! Who does the blame lay with? Well, at the end of the day the buck has to stop with Capt. E.J.Smith...
 
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Lisa Watson

Guest
While I agree that she was built the best as possible in those days, I don't think that all of the blame should lay with Captain Smith. There were so many factors that contributed to the sinking and so many "what if's". I do think that Captain Smith is to blame(probably even most of it) but certaintly he isn't the only one. Only my opinion.
 
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Michael Gibbs

Guest
Lisa

I agree with you! There were many individual incidents that combined to make the ship sink in the end. But, like I said before, the buck has to stop with Capt. E.J.Smith as he was Titanic's master.

Saying that, I do still feel that his reputation has remained intact after all this time...
 
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Trent

Guest
I do no think there is one person to blame so many thing happened such as no binoculars in the crows nest cause Mr. Blair locked them in a locker not knowing. THats just one small case. Sure in was the Captains responsibility for the ship but he is just one players in this whole story. But I do know what are are talking about it all comes back to Captain Smith as its his ship.
 

Dan Cherry

Member
Mar 3, 2000
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If I may, I'd like to address the Titanic disaster
from a Christian standpoint.
For those of Christian or other spiritual faith,
sometimes these disasters are allowed to happen to
give humanity a reality check.
Many factors contributed to the Titanic disaster.
Walter Lord calls it his list of 'what-ifs'. The
binocluars, the ice warning ignored, the weather,
the complacency of those powers that be, the poor
steel construction...Following is a post I made
back in March about the same question:

By Dan C. on Wednesday, March 29, 2000 - 02:05 pm:
Alyssa,
By the turn of the century, man's arrogance had
reached a fever pitch with the Industrial
Revolution. It is one thing to feel good about
one's accomplishments, it is another to be
prideful and boast that one has conquered God and
the elements.
Eva Hart said in the days surrounding the voyage,
her mother felt the label 'unsinkable'
immortalized by the media of the day and not the
White Star Line, 'was flying in the face of God'.
The Titanic was named after the Titans of ancient
Greek mythology. The Titans dared the gods and
were struck down for their arrogance.
The arrogance needed to be broken, and sometimes
it takes a movement by the finger of God to shake
people and society down to a managable level and
remind people who is in charge. It can be compared
to the 1986 space shuttle Challenger explosion.
She, too, was brought down by the ignoring of ice
warnings and over-confidence in the technology of
the day.
'God Himself could not sink this ship' was a
statement that went too far, and I feel that God
spoke through this event in the North Atlantic.
Survivor Jack Thayer made a few good points in his
writings after the sinking. I cannot recall the
exact quotes, but he said the event 'made the
world rub its eyes and awake, and awoke it with a
start'...
Yes, good did come out of the Titanic disaster.
Those who died left a legacy and did not die in
vain. through their deaths resulted the following
- stricter ship safety standards, the
International Ice Patrol in 1913, and mandatory
lifeboat drills on all passenger cruise ships
today. God works in mysterious ways, and though we
may not always see it at the time, it is always
for the greater good. The loss of 1517 human souls
on this earth has undoubtedly saved countless
others through the above transpirings. God is
just, and is like a caring parent, allowing things
like Titanic to keep our paths straight. Sometimes
we have to get hurt to grow as a person. If our
actions never went unchecked, we would constantly
push the envelope until we destroy ourselves...

Those are my thoughts, as a Christian, regarding
the topic.

Michael, as far as the steel goes, Olympic may
have sunk, too, if she had an accident of the same
proportion as Titanic, prior to her retrofitting.
The steel from Olympic was the same quality as
Titanic (manufactured at around the same time).
However, though Olympic had several accidents in
her career (including two head-on rammings and one
broadside collision), none were close to what
happened to Titanic. The quality of the steel
seems to vary from theorist to theorist, depending
on what they want to prove. Science always seems
to be in a state of flux....

Regards,
Dan
 
Dec 2, 2000
58,614
693
483
Easley South Carolina
Dan, in regards to the steel, what was used then was the best available at the time...quite literally the state of the art at the time. The same quality steel was used in other ships built since then, including the queen Mary. The brittle steel problem wasn't even well known or understood until around 1943. The chemistry of modern steel is based on lessons learned from ships that broke up.

As to the question of the devine, since matters of faith can never be proven, the points are moot. Besides, people are more then adept at causing their own problems. God doesn't have to do the legwork when we seem all too happy to do it ourselves.

The real bottom line is that the Titanic was killed by some very human mismanagement. Not devine intervention or indifference.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
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Devan Robertson

Guest
Everyone

You must all understand. It was simply the continuous mistakes made by certain individuals that really sunk the titanic. You have the fact that the steel was simply very brittle under certain cold temperateurs which was probably one of the main factors, The attempt to avoid the collison by Murdoch, the speed in which the titanic was traveling, the icerberg warnings that never reached Captains Smith's hand and the fact that there was no moon to reflect off the bergs. each are equaly inportant as if one had not occured or been fixed, the disater would of never occured, or the death toll would of been less severe. If there had been an suficiant amount of lifeboats then everyone could have been saved. If the ship had minimized their speed down by a couple knots the titanic would of more likly passed the iceberg. If the iceberg warnings hadreached captain Smith, he might have been persuaded to steam farther south or slow down considerably. If the workers had used better quality steel and tested its durabilty on cold temperateurs then the collision might not have been very serious. There are many contributing factors and each played a vital role in deciding the titanics fate. Each must be well researched and inspected to see whether it is practicle.


Devan Robertson
*titanic Expert*
 
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Robert Howe

Guest
Although I've had very interesting discussions elsewhere with people more closely involved with Titanic than I am, I still feel that many of the objections to 'disturbing' the wreck come from an almost subconscious assumption that Titanic was deliberately placed beyond man's reach in 1912. When we can recognise that this is a baseless emotional response, with nothing whatever to back it up, mankind can move one step closer to 'growing up' properly.

I find some of the material in this thread astonishingly short-sighted and ill thought-out. What kind of god would subject innocent children to hours of terror followed by a freezing, eardrum-popping, lung-bursting death in the Atlantic, simply to teach mankind a sharp lesson? Certainly not a god assuming the role of a caring parent who sometimes gives a child a small smack for its own good.

Rob
 
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Michael Gibbs

Guest
Rob

As an atheist, who doesn't believe in God, I'm not moved to protest against the salvage operations on any kind of religious grounds...

I believe two very simple things. One; that Titanic Inc are only in there to make a quick profit and if they rip the Titanic to pieces in the process, then too bad! Two; that Capt. Smith and his crew, due to a combination of bad luck, misjudgment, miscommunication and relaxed standards, caused that ship to crash into the iceberg that night!

Now, human nature being what it is, people tend to settle into comfortable routines. I don't believe that the Titanic's crew were deliberately incompetent or bad people, they just got caught out by circumstance. Wasn't this bound to happen after years of corner cutting on safety standards, due to demands for more efficiency and faster turn around times from the management?

Doesn't this just highlight how relaxed the safety standards were at the time? Thankfully, this disaster stimulated reforms in the shipping industry. But shouldn't this of happened before the Titanic anyway?

But, no! The greedy money men, who ran the show from up high, were more interested in efficiency, profit and time. Remember, speed is the name of the game! Efficiency must be increased to satisfy our share holders! Time is money! If you what to get ahead in this company Capt. Smith, we want more speed, speed, SPEED...

A disaster waiting to happen...
 

Dan Cherry

Member
Mar 3, 2000
775
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I am not saying anyone is wrong - I agree with
many of the facts that led up to the disaster.
There were numerous factors leading up to the
night of April 14, 1912. Play in the snake pit and
sooner or later you're going to get bit. A
shipping disaster was bound to happen as man
conquered the elements.
I have always held the highest respect for
everyone here and elsewhere in the Titanic realm.
I for one will not blast down anyone else's
opinion, nor refer to those opinions by others I
don't agree with as "astonishingly short-sighted
and ill thought-out". I ask the same courtesy be
shown in return to all involved, that's all.

Cordially,
Dan
 

Paul Rogers

Member
Nov 30, 2000
1,244
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West Sussex, UK
I'm reminded of my parents' advice to never discuss either politics or religion with one's friends. (That is if one wants to keep them as friends!) We all have strong opinions, and we are all entitled to them.

Anyway FWIW, here comes my tuppenceworth in response to Robert Howe's comments about disturbing the wreck:

I think that the ship should be left alone. The wreck is a monument to all those who died, and to deface and destroy what's left of it for profit, (and I believe that's the only reason motivating Titanic Inc), shows immense disrespect for the victims of the disaster.

Now, this is only my opinion, and I'm not imposing it on anyone. But please all feel free to have a go anyway, should you so wish!

Regards,

Paul.
 
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Karen Angstadt

Guest
I have to say I agree with you Paul RE: salvage, and you parents RE: religion and politics. In the beginning I thought there was nothing wrong with the whole salvage thing. I realized though that I was just thinking about ME, and how being able to see the items salvaged benefited ME. The thing is, the Titanic is not about ME. It's about the people whose lives were lost. I think you're right too Paul that Titanic Inc. is only thinking of the ME too. Karen
 
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Devan Robertson

Guest
Fellow experts..

We must consider the circumstances and everyones opinion in a rational fashion before any cunclusive solutions can be made sincere. many Belive that the wreck should be examined more specificly and thurough and even raised to the surface to examine and solve mysteries that have been poking at everyones minds for more than 80 years. The innner findings and structure of the great liner would prove to be facinating and it would draw the interest in titanic for even longer. Now I belive that it should be raised *despite being a grave site*. I feel that some people would it not raised due to the fact that so many people lost their lives. However we must also consider that there were searches for all the plane crashes and many things were recovered, despite having lots of people dying where they were searching. Its been 88 years and I think the salvagers saying is"we must get what we can beofre its all gone" because they know thatthe ship will deteriorate within a period of time. I know more about titanic than most people and despite not being peticularly active to whetherornot it should be raised, it seems like the practical thingto do, I'm notsaying I'll agree with everything thatthey go thorugh butI doubt they'll be more than pleased with their attempts.


Regards

Devan Robertson
*titanic expert*
 

Dan Cherry

Member
Mar 3, 2000
775
9
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Paul,
I've also learned this over the years, too, because you can get into some very heated discussions.

I, too, am against the idea of the current salvage expedition. The quest for profit has taken an ugly turn, which is what RMST, Inc. only appears to be after - George Tulloch was supposedly ousted because he wasn't profit-oriented enough. Call the purpose of the expedition what you wish and embellish it with feel-good words, but the removal of items from a place where people died smacks of serious disrespect to their memory. There needs to be a line drawn and I am afraid the line was first crossed in 1987 with the first 'recovery' expedition, then again when items from the ship itself were pulled up. What's next? Blasting open the hull to get to items? Destroy one part of history to 'save' another? IMO, it doesn't make sense. Perhaps if money and profit was the motivator, I would understand.
However, I would be in support of a complete interior photo record of the wreck and any items of interest. I think the impact of viewing photographs showing the items as they are today 12,460 feet under the ocean speaks louder than being all shined up under a glass-enclosed case in a museum.

Again, just my opinion, and like Paul's, not imposed on anyone.

Regards,
Dan
 
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Tracey McIntire

Guest
Hello everyone!
To paraphrase the title of this thread--"God himself couldn't RAISE this ship!" The wreck of the Titanic is firmly imbedded in over 30 feet of mud. Any attempts to raise her would surely destroy the fragile hull. I must say I am grateful for this fact as I feel we should let her rest where she fell. I really think that there is nothing that can be learned by bringing artifacts to the surface that we can't learn by photographing them where they are. I like Dr. Ballard's analogy on why salvaging the Titanic is inappropriate. He said "Would it be appropriate to bring up dog-tags and belt buckles from the wreck of the Arizona?"
Just my humble opinion.
Sincerely,
Tracey
 
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Robert Howe

Guest
--quotation begins--
I for one will not blast down anyone else's
opinion, nor refer to those opinions by others I
don't agree with as "astonishingly short-sighted
and ill thought-out". I ask the same courtesy be
shown in return to all involved, that's all.
--quotation ends--

I do not read my post as discourteous. The entitlement to common courtesy is both universal and unconditional. I have not posted any message that is abusive or personally insulting, and nor do I intend to.

However, I will not automatically respect an assertion without making an assessment of its merit. (NB That has nothing to do with courtesy, or lack of it, to any poster.) Your assertion that Titanic was sunk deliberately by a supernatural entity is without justification.

Rob
 
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Robert Howe

Guest
--quotation begins--
I'm reminded of my parents' advice to never discuss either politics or religion with one's friends. (That is if one wants to keep them as friends!) We all have strong opinions, and we are all entitled to them.
--quotation ends--

Aside from the question of what those who advocate abstinence from religious discussions are doing in this thread, it's simply not true that all opinions are of equal merit. Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions, but also we owe it to ourselves to examine those opinions carefully. I wonder if someone who posts an opinion that the 1500 souls who perished aboard Titanic were sent deliberately to their deaths by a supernatural entity seeking to teach mankind a lesson, has really thought it through.

My opinion is that such an assertion is manifest nonsense.

Rob
 

Dan Cherry

Member
Mar 3, 2000
775
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Respectfully, to the contrary, my answers,
intertwined with facts and religious belief are
carefully thought out, and have been
cross-examined by others of like faith to assure
the postings are true to biblical teachings and do
not undermine the belief of Christianity.

I stand behind my previous posts.

I look forward to the next thread and keeping
politics and religion out of the discussion :)

Cordially,
Dan
 

Paul Rogers

Member
Nov 30, 2000
1,244
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West Sussex, UK
Robert,

I believe there is a difference between opinions and theories.

Theories, based on hard evidence, should indeed be examined carefully. Opinions, which cannot be evidenced one way or another, cannot therefore be tested and remain a matter of "faith."

It is your "opinion" that no supernatural entity had a hand in the sinking of Titanic. No-one can either prove or disprove this "opinion" and it remains your right to hold it. However, I believe that no-one has the right to conclude that someone holding the opposite opinion to yours is speaking "manifest nonsense." What qualifications are available which will allow someone to judge whose "opinion" is right and whose is wrong?

As for the comment regarding my parents' advice, I was attempting to demonstrate that when we get involved in religious discussions, we must remember not to impose our views on others, for the reasons stated above.

Paul.
 

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