God himself couldbnt sink this ship


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Robert Howe

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I apologise for my lengthy absence from this discussion.

In some recent posts I think we risk clouding the issue. The language I use will continue to be polite, firm, clear and direct, and it does no good to divert attention from the point under discussion by focusing on semantics.

I agree entirely that Encyclopedia Titanica is not the ideal place for a theological debate, but then, surely, neither is it the place for lengthy posts propounding the god-sank-her explanation. The discussion is under way now, and those involved in the initial stages share responsibility for its inception.

It is not only I to whom it is clear that the god-sank-her hypothesis is manifest nonsense. The burden of proof lies with those who propound that point of view. I repeat that I will publicly retract my statements as soon as I see verifiable evidence in support of the god-sank-her idea. Until then, that idea carries no more weight than does an assertion that the invisible pink unicorn, and not a football-kicking child, was to blame for a broken window.

Rob
 
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Alisa Schrom

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Ok here goes this is my opinion. i am a christian, and I believe god has a hand in everything we do.....but he did not sink the Titanic. It was not Captian Smiths fault either. To me it was murdochs fault, if he was such a good seamen then he would have known that when you put a triple screw in reverse the middle screw is not moving there for making the ship harder to turn. It is a logically explination if he would have kept the veesal going forward and just turned he would have most likely missed the iceburg.
So no didn't sink the Titanic Murdoch did.
Alisa
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Alisa, by custom and law, the ships captain is responsible for EVERYTHING which happens on his ship, and the buck has to stop with Smith. He could and should have ordered a slower speed among other things, should have taken the ice warnings more seriously and so on. Murdoch certainly made the final and fatal mistake, but it was the last one in a long chain of them...and there's NO possible way the captain can escape his own accountability.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 

Jeremy Lee

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Smith could have ordered a slower speed etc. etc. but he was obviously under pressure from Ismay to reach New York as fast as possible.....
 
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Nicolaj Pedersen

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i just want to say something about this subject.
maybe there is a form of God, and God wanted to show the people who did not believe titanic could sink, that it could. he wanted to show that any man can control the lives of people, even if they claim that she ship cant sink.
best regards nicolaj
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Nicolaj, I can't say as I much care for theological discussions as they all hold as their base assumption that diety exists. There is not one shred of evidence to support it. None...in all fairness...to refute it either.

Arguements...yes...but no testable proof.

It also assumes that diety would take a deep interest in one particular ship and that in taking this interest, that diety actually cares enough to have a reason to take an interest. This premise is equally impossible to put to the test and in the end, quite unnesseccery.

Diety hardly needed to take an interest in the ship as this was a pooch that got screwed without any need for outside help from the Allmighty. There is nothing remarkable about how and why Titanic came to a bad end. Enough mistakes were made to send the ship crashing into an iceberg and she sank as a direct consequence of that.

Pretty mundane when you stop to think about it.
 
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shawn sparkman

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i'm not sure if that comment was made. but before you jump my case IF it was indeed said and IF God was offended he sure as hell found a way to prove mans work is destructable under any circumstances
 
Mar 22, 2003
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I'd like to quote one of comments made earlier on this subject by Rob Howe:

"I find some of the material in this thread astonishingly short-sighted and ill thought-out. What kind of god would subject innocent children to hours of terror followed by a freezing, eardrum-popping, lung-bursting death in the Atlantic, simply to teach mankind a sharp lesson? Certainly not a god assuming the role of a caring parent who sometimes gives a child a small smack for its own good."

Although there were people who said stupid things like 'God himself couldn't sink this ship' out of their own ignorance, there were many more who knew better. Even Captain Smith had been quoted as saying something like he 'could not imagine any incident that would cause a ship to founder since modern (1910) shipbuilding had come so far'. Yet he was thinking in terms of common mishaps, including collisions with other ships like what happened between the Olympic and the Hawke. He could not imagine a collision with something that would damage 5 to 6 watertight compartments. Yet, those that built Titan, and I believe Smith included, new all too well that she cannot withstand 5 compartments, let alone 6, open to the sea. So informed people knew that she could indeed sink, but most could not comprehend the circumstances that would cause it to happen. So who caused the circumstances that resulted in this tragedy? The actions and lack of actions of man, not god.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>...IF it was indeed said and IF God was offended he sure as hell found a way to prove mans work is destructable under any circumstances.<<

This would assume that diety exists. While some believe and some disbelieve, there's just no way to put this proposition to any sort of test.

When you apply Occam's Razor to the equation, one can see that there's really no need to either. With human fallibility doing all the dirty work, the Allmighty needed to do nothing more then watch the fun.
 
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Tom Pappas

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Personally, I find utterances claiming knowledge of God's intentions, capabilities, or tastes to be extremely boring - and often self-contradictory.

People who believe in a Supreme Being accept without inspection the notion that He/She/It created the entire universe and set it in motion. For such a believer to declare that a deity having power on that scale couldn't sink an insignificant mote of iron like RMS Titanic seems to me stupid beyond comprehension.
 
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john skinner

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i really dont think that god sank the titanic.it was moreso human error especially capt smith. he had the ice warnings,and he eventually INCREASED the ships speed into the icefield.now some person is going to argue this point,but you have to consider that the ball stops in relation to the blame with the captian.HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY OF THE VESSEL HE IS IN COMMAND OF AND IN NO WAY CAN HE PLACE THE SAFETY OF PASSENGERS,CREW OR SHIP IN HARMS WAY TO MEET A SCHEDULE OR TO SATISFY A PERSONAL GOAL. in this case he was urged to make a new transatlantic crossing record. and i dont doubt that he wanted that record as his crowning achievement upon retirement.
 
Mar 22, 2003
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Captain Smith was NOT trying for a new transatlantic crossing record. He knew, as did Ismay and others, that the Titanic could not break the record of the Mauretania or even the Lusitania for a transatlantic passage. It was not designed for speed. He was trying for a good passage, maybe arriving a little ahead of schedule. Given the ice warnings that he had, he obviously knew that he would eventually have to slow down when they came up to the reported ice field. In the tradition of other transatlantic skippers of that time, he kept the speed up until forced to slow down when encountering ice or other weather affects such as fog. Since it was a very clear night with almost perfect visibility, he took a risk in hoping that any ice would be seen well in advance before being forced to slow down. The rest is history.
 

Renee Jones

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I feel it's a matter of what you believe.

I "personally" feel (and this is MY OPINION) that God didn't sink the ship but feel He could have prevented it if He had chosen to. You hear all the time of people talking about how they should've been killed in that wreck, or how some miracle saved them. I truly believe the Almighty can intervene in any event He wishes. Maybe it was those who perished times to go. Why he saves some and not all or not others, we will never know or understand and I don't think it's up to us to try to explain or understand.

But I think that mistakes made by many people led up to the sinking....not God.
 
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don't know much about this sort of thing myself, but I'm a bit puzzled why a Christian should think God might have a hand in sinking the Titanic, as I thought Christians believed in a merciful God. Organizing collisions with icebergs in the North Atlantic sounds a much more Old Testament sort of thing. Like the Flood, or plagues.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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The problem with "I believe" is that it's not even remotely the same thing as knowing. Being Catholic, I hold to a few "beliefs", none of which qualify as anything more then my personal and highly subjective opinion on things spiritual. I can't support any of that by the evidence and I could be wrong.

All of which I think misses what's really going on here. When people see incredible events...or what they perceive to be incredible events...they try to make some sense of it by thinking up equally incredible causes when they need to look at the mundane.

As a consequence of some navigation errors and particularly dangerous practices common for the time,, the ship blundered into an iceberg and sank.

There's nothing remotely shocking about that, and no devine intervention is required.

It seems to me that when God is invoked...complete with all the pious platitudes about putting us mere humans beings "Back in our place"...those who do such are not giving God the credit.

They're trying to give him the blame.
 
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Donoan Jones

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I do think that God did in fact sink the ship only because we all know God is also known as Mother nature. and look at this fact...

It took 2 1/2 years to build the great ship and it took only 2 1/2 hours to sink the Great ship..

So what does that say about that..

and the many forseen visions of the disaster before it ever took place..


This is the one and only Ezzer X
 

Jeremy Lee

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I believe it is pure BAD LUCK that sent the ship.

- If the iceberg had not scraped an extra 5ft. more, the ship probably would not sink

- The chances with colliding with an iceberg there is slim, and although the ship changed its course, it still met the ice

- The iceberg was big enough to inflict fatal damage, yet too small to be seen until it was too late.

etc. etc.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>I do think that God did in fact sink the ship only because we all know God is also known as Mother nature.<<

Sorry, We don't "know" anything of the kind.

>>It took 2 1/2 years to build the great ship and it took only 2 1/2 hours to sink the Great ship..

So what does that say about that.. <<

Not a thing since it didn't take 2 1/2 hours to sink, it took 2 hours and forty minutes to sink, with this time actually being debated because of problems reconciling time zones, messages, testimony, etc. At best, what we have is an approximation.

>>and the many forseen visions of the disaster before it ever took place..<<

No entirely accurate. If you're thinking of Robertson's "Futility", you might try taking some time to actually read the story. The only resemblance between the story and what actually happened was the ship mixing it up with an iceberg resulted in the ship going down. Beyond that, there's no real resemblance.
 

Kyrila Scully

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As one fully indoctrinated in Catholic and Protestant tenets, capably acquainted with the Scriptures and seriously interested in spirituality, I take exception to blaming God for the ills of the world. It's superstitious, uninformed, and a total cop-out for personal responsibility. If James Lipton were to ask me what words I hate the most, it would be the words "It's God's will." God's will is this -in His own words: "Beloved, I desire above all things that you prosper and be in good health, even as your soul prospers." Nothing in there about sinking ships or letting babies die or any of the sort. Maybe you're thinking of His enemy?

Kyrila
 

Jeremy Lee

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God can control this far - the final decision is still up to you.

e.g. How you steer the Titanic.
 
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