Gold bullion

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Joshua Doyle Tift

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There is treasure down there to be found. Look at all of the claims filed by first class. No one has ever found Mrs. Astor's diamonds,Widener pearls, or Mrs. Carters jewels. No one even knows if the first class safes were emptied. So how can anyone say that there is nothing to be found down there. Most certainly there is a fortune in jewels down there waiting to be found and the shipment of diamonds turned out to be true too. So don't say there is not anything to be found. You had some of the richest people on board that ship so that is proof in its self.
 
>>You had some of the richest people on board that ship so that is proof in its self.<<

No it isn't. It may be an indication that there might be something down there but being rich isn't neseccerily proof that you're dragging all you're wealth around with you, or even anything beyond some clothes and the funds in your wallet.

Having said that, there may well be a fortune down there, but as expensive as it is just to send a submersible down that deep just to take pictures, never mind the additional expense in hunting and recovering artifacts, don't count on finding enough to make a profit.
 

Joshua Doyle Tift

Former Member
First I did not say that the rich take everything with them every time they travel. Look at the claims and read some of the newer book on the subject. In the book Titanic An Illustrated History it is stated that women did not take there best pieces of jewelry with them but that they did travel with some to wear. You cant expect a ship of today with all kinds of famous people on board to not have any thing of value with them when there boat would sink. And being rich you would travel with some jewelry to show off I would know. If you look at all the people on board and look at the claims you would find a very good profit look at how the R.M.S. TITANIC Inc has done so far.
 
Joshua, I don’t think anyone is disputing the fact that there were rich people on the Titanic who traveled with their equally rich creature comforts. Of course they didn’t take every last thing of value with them, but they wanted to show off [they were, after all, on the Titanic], as you said. No one is disputing that either. But to assemble the contents of the wreck into a foundered pile of undiscovered treasure worth tons of money is wrong. While the value of jewelry, furs, clothing, that Renault, etc., together were unbelievably high, the true value lay in those passengers’ net worth and their intangible collective wealth as a whole OUTSIDE of the Titanic. Real estate, railroads, etc. Since you’re talking about money, there’s your real treasure.
 
>>If you look at all the people on board and look at the claims you would find a very good profit<<

What items were claimed and what can actually be found on the ocean floor are two entirely different things, especially after almost a hundred years and a crumbling wreck. Many items, if not obscured, are likely deteriorated beyond recognition, if still existing at all. True, there are a number of valuables still yet to be found, but many will likely never be found due to the reasons given above. I'm sure many "treasure hunters" are aware of this.
 
Relatively few jewels have been located by numerous expeditions. I myself saw the live TV broadcast of the opening of that purser's safe that was recovered - bereft of anything other than a few pieces of trinkets or papers. Of the pieces of jewelry found was a bracelet with the name Amy, and a sapphire ring believed to belong to Mrs. Cardeza, along with a few other items of this nature, and a pocket watch.

Frankly I find the whole "treasure hunter" mentality sickening. While I have supported the efforts to bring items from the wreckage for historic and scientific purposes, selling them for profit is morally wrong. I feel this way about any shipwreck, not just the Titanic. That's why I'm only interested in purchasing reproductions - so the actual relic can be preserved for public posterity and not private vanity.

Kyrila
 
>>First I did not say that the rich take everything with them every time they travel.<<

I didn't say that you did. What I did was quote you verbatim when you said "You had some of the richest people on board that ship so that is proof in its self" in relation to 'Most certainly there is a fortune in jewels down there waiting to be found and the shipment of diamonds turned out to be true too. So don't say there is not anything to be found." then I proceeded to rebut the arguement.

Not difficult to do when one resorts to the logical fallacy of Affirming the Consequent

Yes, there were a lot of very wealthy people aboard, but that does not in itself mean they were traveling with hoards of their personal goodies and wealth with them. (Doesn't mean that they weren't either.) It only means that there were a lot of rich people aboard.
 

Joshua Doyle Tift

Former Member
Are you trying to say that the claims the passengers themselves every other piece that has surfaced over the years is false except for what you have and your so called sources have to say.
 
>>Are you trying to say that the claims the passengers themselves every other piece that has surfaced over the years is false except for what you have and your so called sources have to say.<<

And what makes you think that all of them are inspired inerrant? Insurance fraud is quite common in the wake of any such events and it's a game a lot of people play...even the wealthy. Now, why don't you attend to the whole of what I said earlier as opposed to contriving a strawman?
 
OK I'll chime in on this.

1. For my credentials on this topic: I was the first researcher to examine the Titanic's claims at the National Archives in Bayonne, NJ (having discovered them by pure accident, as a natural consequence of my Republic work - see Charlie Haas' and Jack Eaton's listing of credits in at least two of their books). White Star Line was protected by the Harter Limitation of Liability Act. See: http://www.rms-republic.com/conceal04.html. So the only claims that would be filed within that action would be for un/self-insured items, of generally minimal value, particularly when compared to privately insured items. See for applicable argument: http://www.rms-republic.com/other_cargos3.html
2. Insurance companies had no interest in filing their claims. There was no benefit to be gained. See argument, loc. cit.
3. Since, no doubt, the most expensive losses of cargo, jewelry, personal effects, etc. would have been privately insured - and, since there was no incentive for insurance companies to file a claim (there was no one to collect against - AND no insurance company did file a claim as a part of the Limitation of Liability proceeding), we can only speculate as to what may have actually been lost. Certainly, if we assume that the bulk of valuable passenger effects were privately insured, unless the passengers indicated their loss and their comments were reported within the press - the public wouldn't know.
 
I remember reading somewhere that Royal Mail steamers occasionally carried bullion for bank transfers between Britain and the U.S. The Bank of England supposedly keeps its records classified for 100 years after the event, so if the Titanic carried any gold bullion, there may not be an available record for at least another three years. I rather doubt there's any aboard, though.
 
-the bullion story is a load of old rubbish!

Amen Dr. Lee, and so is the rumored account of TITANIC carrying a cache of opium? I recall when the Japanese U-571 was discovered, and what was hoped to be recovered, gold/silver cargo, turned out to be opium. Needless to say, the U.S. Coast Guard was on stanby to insure that Tidwell and his team destroyed the recovered opium,
which in-turn was estimated to worth as much as a mineral recovery.

Michael Cundiff
NV, USA
 
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