Great Grandfather Giovanni Cergnul and the Carpathia


Aug 4, 2006
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Hi,

I am looking for information on my Great Grandfather Giovanni Cergnul. My grandfather (Giovanni's son) told me that Giovanni was a crew member on the Carpathia. He was coming to the US from Italy when the ship arrived in New York he jumped ship and stayed in the US.When the Carpathia left New York and was heading back is when it went to help the Titanic.If he would of stayed on the ship he would of been there to help also.
My problem is I can not find a crew list from when they arrived in New York that day to verify that this story is true. Does anybody know what day the Carpathia got to New York before leaving and helping the Titanic? Is there a crew member list from the ship when they arrived in New York?
Any information that you have would be very helpful. Thank you for your time.

Kristina M. Cergnul
 
J

João Carlos Pereira Martins

Guest
Hi Kristina!

I don't know if my post will be of great help to you, but I only know that the Carpathia left New York on April 11th. I have no idea how much time would take for a ship restore the supplies and get ready to sail again, but I suppose this date it's a beginning.

Regards, João
 

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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Kristina, the nearest is a fireman named Antonio Cernyul. He was born in Austria and was aged 19. He signed on Carpathia on 9 March 1912. The list on this site shows him as a deserter. It's not clear where he joined or where he deserted.

Ellis Island records show a Giovanni Cergnul, aged 27, arriving on 8 August 1920 from Trieste. There's also a Giovanni Cerniul, aged 28, on 1 May 1923, also from Trieste.

The shipping column of The New York Times should tell you when Carpathia arrived in New York. The paper is commonly available on microfilm in major libraries. If a good number deserted, the incident may have got a mention. Certainly quite a number deserted Carpathia during her series of voyages between New York and Mediterrean ports.
 
Aug 4, 2006
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Hello,
Thank you for your quick response! The Antonio That you found was he on the ship when it saved the people from the Titanic or did he leave the ship before they left New York?The age of this Antonio matches with my Great Grandfather Giovanni's age and Giovanni had a brother named Antonio. Maybe for some reason he sailed under his brothers name? Did they check to make sure you were who you said you were? Thanks for the help everyone!!
Also Does anybody know about how long it took a ship to re-stock and leave a port? Thanks for the help everyone!!

Kristina
 

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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Kristina, as I said, there's no indication of when Antonio deserted.

Carpathia's voyage was rather unusual. She signed on a crew on 9 February 1912 in Liverpool. She then sailed to New York. She then made a series of voyages to the Mediterranean, visiting many ports. She then returned to New York. This was repeated several times and she didn't return to Liverpool until 1913. (I have a document on this but it's partly illegible). Antonio signed on 12 March, so he must have been picked up somewhere along the way, maybe in Italy.

The name is a problem but maybe he was Antonio Giovanni. Just a thought.
 
Aug 4, 2006
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Hello everyone,

Thank you, I guess I will have to try a see if Giovanni was actually Antonio Giovanni or maybe Giovanni Antonio. Do you know if there is a list of the crew members that recieved the bronze medals for helping the Titanic?

Kristina
 
C

Cáit Grant

Guest
Hello Kristina,
Like you I too am looking for a list of the crew members who received medal for their part in saving those from the Titanic. As yet I have not been able to find one. If any one knows of one I, like Kristina would be grateful as my great uncle helped to save Lady Astor.
Cáit
 

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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I doubt if you can do better than to use the crew list on this site. Delete all the deserters and assume everybody else received medals.

This is not perfect, because of the nature of Carpathia' voyages, during which she seems to have added and lost crew from time to time over about a year. The last to join signed on 11 April 1912, so all on board as of 15 April were eligible for a medal. The only question is when the deserters left. My guess is in New York, before 11 April, which is why so many new crew joined on 11 April.
 

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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Silly me! British researcher, Brian Ticehurst, has drawn my attention to his book The Titanic's Rescuers. I forgot I have a copy!

It contains a full record of Carpathia's voyages in 1912. For your purpose, she arrived in New York on 29 March 1912. The turnround was slow and she left on 11 April. If the deserters attracted any attention, they might be mentioned in the press on about 30 April.

Carpathia finally returned to Liverpool on 31 December 1912. The date I can't quite read must be 1/1/1913, when the crew was paid off.

Brian makes the total number of deserters 57. He says it was common for people seeking to illegally enter the USA to sign on a ship, use their status as visiting sailors to go ashore and fade into the scenery.
 
Aug 4, 2006
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Dave,

Thank you for the information I will try and find a manifest for that date. Were the crew members listed on the manifests? The only one that I have checked is one for Nov.24,1913. That is the date that some papers that I have say he arrived also on the Carpathia.I have checked that manifest but do that find him or any other crew members listed? Family stories tell me this information about him being on the Carpathia when it arrived on as you say the 29th of March. If you have any suggestions about the crew members of either voyage I would love to hear them!!! It it very fustrating looking through a manifest that he is suppose to be on but finding no crew members at all listed. I will try and find that manifest for March 29th and give that a try. Thank You for your help in the matter!

Kristina
 
Aug 4, 2006
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Hello Again,

I was also wondering if anybody knows of a list of the people that recieved medals for their help? A friend that Giovanni was traveling with I guess stayed on the ship and he was on there when they the helped the Titanic. I was told though family that this friend of his could not be located and that his Daughter who's name is now Marie Valente living in Illinois recieved his medal , I am assuming because he had already passed maybe? I am not sure what his friend name was or what this Marie Valente's maiden name was.Thanks again

Kristina
 

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