H & W plans


Jul 9, 2000
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Nothing wrong with being cautiously cynical. It can save you a lot of trouble in the long run. I've seen the copies of these plans that Roy Mengot has and my only regret was that I didn't have the means or the money to make copies for myself at the time or the means of getting them home. Those things are fairly large. In any event, they certainly look genuine to me.
 
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Scott R. Andrews

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Lee,

That's very interesting news indeed. One drawing you mention has piqued my curiosity - the forecastle and poop deck. I have a copy of the poop deck iron drawing, which shows the plating, framing, riveting, waterways, etc. What sort of drawing is this forecastle and poop deck drawing?

Regards,
Scott Andrews
 

Lee Gilliland

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Feb 14, 2003
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This looks more like what the carpenters etc. used - a bit of indication on where the girders were, but mostly windows are this dimension, this wood used in this area under this configuration type thing. The Forecastle and Poop Deck plan is about 3 feet by 15 feet, the Promenade Deck House 3 feet by 6 feet, Both incredibly detailed.
 

Lee Gilliland

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Richard, these plans do contain elevations of the individual decks - at least the Forecastle and Poop Deck ones do, here's a close-up -
elevation.jpg
 
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Scott R. Andrews

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Lee,

That isn't what H&W is calling the "Forecastle and Poop Deck" drawing, is it? That scan (.../elevation.jpg) looks like part of the Promenade Deck House (A-deck).

Regards,
Scott Andrews
 

Lee Gilliland

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Whoopsies I stand corrected. I was thinking "elevation" and just slung that in there. It's the Promenade Deck House - the Forecastle and Poop plans have no elevation. I wonder why?
 
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Scott R. Andrews

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Lee,

Could you perhaps post a small area of the forecastle and poop deck areas so we can see what that plan looks like?

Thank you,
Scott Andrews
 

Lee Gilliland

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Feb 14, 2003
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PoopDeckPlans.jpg


but I think that has to be the last one, as I was given permission to post these only to prove their authenticity, which I think I've done. If you want any more detail,contact me off line please.

I also want to note that the Well Deck is named "Tourist Promenade" on these plans - the Poop, at least, may have been modified, as I don't think they called 3rd Class Tourist until the 20's, did they?
 
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Scott R. Andrews

Guest
Hi Lee,

Thanks for posting that image; now I know what that drawing actually is. Apparently, one thing that hasn't changed since the last time H&W was selling copies of the drawings is the clarity of the descriptions on their lists. This is not a drawing specifically of the Poop deck and Forecastle, but one of the sheets of the detailed ca. 1930's general arrangement plans. If your copy was produced from the same original as the one I have, you may find a date somewhere on the perimeter of the drawing that looks to have been written by someone not from the drafting office.

Thanks again for your help!

Scott Andrews
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Easley South Carolina
>>...as I don't think they called 3rd Class Tourist until the 20's, did they?<<

I think you may be right. It think the idea of a "tourist" class was already around, an was being incorperated in the giants that Balin was building in Germany. It made sense for a lot of reasons, not the least of which was that people who had gone to America and made good would want to visit the "Old Country" but do it at a reasonable price. With some rumblings against mass immigration already bouncing off the walls in Congress, getting set to cater to a budding market was a smart move. Especially when there was reason to suppose that the other would be wiped out by legislative fiat. I just don't remember offhand if it was called "tourist".
 
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Scott R. Andrews

Guest
Hi Mike,

You and Lee are correct. "Tourist class", or "Tourist 3rd Cabin" as it was called on some ships, was a post WW1 confection aboard the Olympic; Dan Klistorner or Mark Chirnside could tell you exactly when this was introduced and what the public rooms were involved (i.e., partitioning off part of the 2nd class dining saloon, etc).

Lee,

There is one thing in particular you can look for on that general arrangement which helps to place its vintage. Look at the forward end of the Bridge Deck (designated "A", formerly "B"); if there are a number of staterooms shown extending to the very sides of the ship in the forward third of this deck, then it is definitely the 1930's vintage general arrangement.

Regards,
Scott Andrews
 
Jul 9, 2000
58,657
864
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Easley South Carolina
Thanks Scott. I remember reading something about this in Maxtone-Graham's "The Only Way To Cross." From the looks of it however, the Germans were a bit ahead of the game with the Imperator and her sisters, which IIRC, was a four class arrangement.
 

Bob Read

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Dec 9, 2000
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For anyone wishing to take a closer look at the
entire set of GA plans of late Olympic here is a link showing them.


Deck_Plan.jpeg


These are instructive of late Olympic but not really Titanic. Some details remained the same but unless you know what changed you might get confused. The same applies to the Olympic deck house elevations. Some changes were made in window and door placement from Olympic to Titanic.

Regards,
Bob Read
 
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Bob Read

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Lee:
I'm not sure if I understand your question. All drawings you have posted are authentic Harland and Wolff drawings. The general arangement plans were just for showing where rooms, etc. were located. The deckhouse elevation plans were actual construction plans showing precise dimensions. All are authentic. They just have different purposes.

Regards,
Bob Read
 

Bob Read

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Construction plans(deck iron plans, deckhouse elevations, lines plans, etc.) were used for construction. General Arrangement plans were for illustrative purposes to show how the accommodations on different decks were arranged.
Neither is more "authentic" than the other. They were just used for different purposes.
 
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