Harland & Wolff Titanic Plans


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Jul 7, 2002
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I just found another reference to a gate. In Judith Geller's Women and Children First she mentions that Edwina Trout was in cabin E101. One of Edwina's roommates, Susan Webber, "spent most of her time talking over the gate between second and third class to a fellow from her home town" (104).

I'm looking at my NARA deck plans and trying to figure out where that gate could be if it's close to E101. Any suggestions?

Also, "talking over the gate" seems to imply it's a shorter gate, so maybe it doesn't mean a Bostwick gate?

Best wishes,

Cathy
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>Michael, is a cardboard poster tube allowed as carry-on luggage? (I hope you can figure out some way to bring them with you!)<<

Don't know. With my luck, I'll show up with the thing, be mistaken for the son of Ossama Bin Laden and the "Oh yeah, halt...or I'll shoot!!!!" will come after the gaurds have run out of ammunition!
grin.gif


Seriously, I'll be looking into something this weekend. Maybe one of those cases that some people carry pool sticks in will do the job. I'd be reluctant to trust the thing to checked baggage otherwise. Those blokes are merciless!
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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Cathy, the gate in question was very likely on the open deck. Lawrence Beesley may have spotted these exchanges and drawn the wrong conclusion about the relationship of this pair: "Another interesting man was travelling steerage, but had placed his wife in the second cabin: he would climb the stairs leading from the steerage to the second deck and talk affectionately with his wife across the low gate which separated them".
 
Jul 7, 2002
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Michael, you definitely want to carry it!

Bob, I wondered if that was the same couple. I also wondered if Beesley saw Olga Lundin and Nils Johansson (she was travelling second class, he was travelling third). Regardless, do think it refers to a ladder/stairs from the aft well deck up to 2nd class?

Best wishes,

Cathy
 
May 12, 2002
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Michael,

Several years ago, an Irish fella I once knew had the pleasure of trying to get an IR range finder through customs and onto a plane. It was unfortunate for him, given his accent and the the threat that the IRA posed, that it had the appearance of a shoulder mounted bazooka! He had to dismantle the whole thing ... !

Cheers

Paul
 
Sep 13, 2003
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Hi there,
Not sure this question should go here but here goes. Why did Harland & Wolff decide to hand over there plan collection, was it a precaution since their future looked a little dubious at times or were they simply sick of the whole thing. For a while it was possible to buy copies of various Titanic plans (riggings, tanktop, etc, etc)off H & W. Well at least according to there web site, I'm not sure of the practicalities. To my regret I never tried, since I have a big interest in the techincal aspects of the Titanic. Is there some kind of catalog of the Ulster Folk Transport Harland & Wolff collection. I remember reading years ago somewhere that all the drawing of the Titanic/Olympic were destroyed by bombing in WW2. Were parts of H & W Belfast done in by bombing or is that untrue? It used to be possible to buys different prints of the H & W photo colection is that still possible? There was a book with some of the more famous ones ("Iron men, Steel ships")

Kindest Regards

Richard Woolcock
 
Jul 7, 2002
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Hello Richard,

Welcome aboard! The Ulster Folk and Transport Museum (UFTM) is supposed to have all of Harland and Wolff's records but I haven't had much luck getting any info about them. The last time I visited UFTM's site the only Titanic stuff easily accessible was the photo collection. When I e-mailed UFTM asking about the rest of their Olympic/Titanic collection they were not very helpful.

I just tried the UFTM web site and it won't load, but you can still e-mail them through a link on the Belfast Titanic Society's web site.

I, too, have heard about the Olympic class ship plans being destroyed or lost and turning up again later. Does anyone know the real story?

Best wishes,

Cathy
 

Jim Stein

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May 1, 2003
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I contacted them regarding plans for RMS Germanic and RMS Britannic 1 and got a negative response.
I wonder if they are holding any plans or they haven't got around to cataloging them.
 

James Smith

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Dec 5, 2001
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Do blueprints or artistic renderings still exist for White Star's aborted Oceanic? I've never seen any . . .

Jim
 

Lee Gilliland

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Feb 14, 2003
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"I would like to take this opportunity to issue a challenge to ET or THS or the BTS to petition UFTM on behalf of Titanic enthusiasts worldwide to either make the collection available or transfer it to an entity which could. The members of ET could lend their signatures to such a petition if need be. "

Here, here. I spent several weeks of frustration trying to get any response from the UFTM before getting the plans from Bruce Beveridge and Co. (well worth it, but it's still not the same.)
 

Bob Read

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Dec 9, 2000
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I'd like to be optimistic but I really see two main problems:

1. The plans which used to be available through
H&W may no longer be a part of the collection
held by UFTM.

2. UFTM might consider it an insult for anyone
to say that they aren't administering the
H&W collection up to the larger Titanic
community's standards. Also it would surprise
me if a museum would be altruistic enough to
to give up a major collection such as this.

H&W used old copying technology whereby they used to copy directly from fragile old plans.
The plans were taking a beating from such handling. My personal opinion is that a compromise might be possible. What if UFTM allowed ET, or THS or BTS to copy their collection of H&W materials? With today's technology, the copies could be stored on a digital medium and could be printed for modelers and researchers with no further handling of the plans. The plans could be licensed by UFTM whereby they would get a fee for each copy made of the plans. This way they could satisfy the
Titanic community, hold on to their collection,
and receive fees from the proceeds of the sale of any plans. It's so crazy it might work.

Regards,
Bob Read
 

Bob Read

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Dec 9, 2000
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Jim:

Just to save you some money, the book you have and the other one (Harland and Wolff: Designs from the Shipbuilding Empire) are the same book.
The only differences are the dust jacket and the titles. One was printed in the U.S. and the other in the UK. I know, I bought both only to find that they were the identical book.

Regards,
Bob Read
 
Sep 13, 2003
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Thanks Cathy,Bob and everybody else
This really annoys me, these photos & drawings are practically the last remenants of the White Star line in some cohesive collective form.

I really hope they are being properly conserved. I don't mind who administers the collection as long as it is by somebody sensible. Museum's often are short of money, time, space, resources, etc but I am suprised that such a valuable collection has at least not being cataloged. Maybe it has. It would be interesting to at least know the extend of the collection.

I remember now where I heard the story about the Titanic/Olympic plans being lost. It was in "Raise the Titanic", the Clive Cussler book.

The idea of approaching the UFTM is great one but would require a lot of ground work.

Regards

Richard
 
Jul 9, 2000
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If THS has them, then I have to wonder what sort of condition these documents are in. As they're nearly a century old and probably quite fragile, conservation is going to be a problem. Do they even have the resources and know how to do this?
 

Lee Gilliland

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Feb 14, 2003
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They may have them, but I was up there for the last dinner, and they weren't on display then as I would have noticed - I was looking for them.
 
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