Harland & Wolff Titanic Plans


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Keith R E Hall

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O.k Let's get some things clear i have looked at the plans for the titanic and there are a number of errors in her design firstly The watertight bulkheads only reach "E" deck (not high enough) they should reach the boat deck Seconly her centre of balance is only four compartments (4 out of 16) a very serious weight problem and thirdly the rudder is too small by half of what it should have been. if you look at her blue prints and you see the rudder size how the hell are you supposed to steer a ship effectivly that is 882 1/2 feet long 91 1/2 feet wide and a gross tonage of 46,000 tonnes with a rudder that size.
all i can say to harland and wolf is give me the blueprints and i will design you a proper vessel.
 

Bob Read

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Dec 9, 2000
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Keith:
Your engineering evaluation ("watertight bulkheads should reach the boat deck") reveals that either you don't know anything about marine engineering or you are completely unfamiliar with the structure of Olympic class vessels.
What equation did you use to determine the proper
rudder area? What school of marine engineering did you graduate from? Having produced three Olympic class vessels, I don't think H&W is currently putting out bids for an improved design for a fourth.
Regards,
Bob Read
 
Mar 22, 2003
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quote:

The watertight bulkheads only reach "E" deck (not high enough)
You obviously didn't get a good set of plans. Some of them went to E deck others to D deck. She was designed as a two compartment vessel but actually was closer to a three compartment vessel. Her rudder was adequate https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/articles/rudder_weeks.pdf, with good responsiveness with a 2100 ft turning radius, her steel was as good as any other ship of that era, and what do mean by center of balance being 4 compartments out of 16? Stability of a vessel is measured in terms of metacenter height. What do know about marine engineering?​
 
Jul 7, 2002
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Hi Keith,

Welcome aboard. I think you'll find that most people here are willing to debate with you but will expect you to back up your assertions with data (not unsupported opinion). Don't be offended when we ask for more detail, including sources.

That said, on what do you base your assertions?

BTW, if you are looking for a reliable set of deck plans, I recommend Bruce Beveridge's, which Daniel Klistorner mentioned earlier in this thread.

Best wishes,

Cathy
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>if you look at her blue prints and you see the rudder size how the hell are you supposed to steer a ship effectivly that is 882 1/2 feet long 91 1/2 feet wide and a gross tonage of 46,000 tonnes with a rudder that size.<<

They managed well enough under normal operating conditions and if some of the photos taken by Father Browne are any indication, the Titanic may well have been a better handler then some modern commentators are willing to give her credit for. If you check out the article that Cathy posted the link to, you'll get some useful insights into that. The matter of the rudder size and the quality of the steel is also addressed on 000 tonnes with a rudder that size., Spark's Titanic FAQS.

Bear in mind that the Titanic was no warship and was not expected to be able to handle as such, nor was there any need. The ship was basically a glitzy ferryboat intended to go from point A to point B in a strieght line. In restricted waterways such as harbours, she would have needed tuboat assistance, but that's true of almost any large vessel, even today.
 
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Keith R E Hall

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ok where can i get these plans (by the way in the plans each room on the orlop and tanktop deck would be classed as one compartment same as the boiler rooms would be classed as one compartment) 29 boilers is a bit exessive for that ship i remember Bruce Ismay saying that it was not built for speed but for steerage capacity. Also where can i find titanics original blue prints.
 
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Keith R E Hall

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when i look at the deck plans for this ship i look at it from a common sense point of view for a start 20 lifeboats should have been at least (40 lifeboats + 4 collapsible boats) Also would it have been any benefit if this ship had forward bow thrusters to narrow down it's turning circle 2100 yards is still quite a large distance. If you ask about engineering experiance i have experiance in metal fabrication motor vehicle engineering electrical engineering electrical installation and construction and before you ask i have steered a 70 foot boat before not quite a big boat only 6000 tonnes and a top speed of 17 knotts.
 
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Keith R E Hall

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when i look at the deck plans for this ship i look at it from a common sense point of view for a start 20 lifeboats should have been at least (40 lifeboats + 4 collapsible boats) Also would it have been any benefit if this ship had forward bow thrusters to narrow down it's turning circle 2100 yards is still quite a large distance. If you ask about engineering experience i have experience in metal fabrication motor vehicle engineering electrical engineering electrical installation and construction and before you ask i have steered a 70 foot boat before not quite a big boat only 6000 tonnes and a top speed of 17 knotts.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>ok where can i get these plans <<

Go HERE

>>when i look at the deck plans for this ship i look at it from a common sense point of view for a start 20 lifeboats should have been at least (40 lifeboats + 4 collapsible boats) <<

And you also see it with the crystal clearity of 20/20 hindsight the same as we all do. Remember, this is 1912 we're talking about here. Safety regulations had not caught up to the advances that were happening in marine technology. Also, such useful knick knacks as thrusters and other devices which wetake for granted did not exist back then. Somebody still had to get around to inventing it.

>>If you ask about engineering experiance i have experiance in metal fabrication motor vehicle engineering electrical engineering electrical installation and construction <<

That's nice. That's not what you were asked. You were asked "What school of marine engineering did you graduate from?"

>>and before you ask i have steered a 70 foot boat before not quite a big boat only 6000 tonnes and a top speed of 17 knotts.<<

That's nice too. I have experience steering a 12,000 ton warship with twin screws and a single rudder. We have seamen and deck officers with experience in twin rudders and 4 screws of up to 85,000 tons. Quite a body of experience you can learn from.
wink.gif
 
K

Keith R E Hall

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i graduated from plymouth college of further education which i recieved certificates in my national record of achievment. Also i had an aprentice job Welding Electric gas and mig welding and repairing machinery also working for an industrial machinery hire company where i passed an exam for operating electrical test apparatus.
 
K

Keith R E Hall

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I may be able to obtain the blueprints for all olympic class vessels built by Harland and wolf if interested e-mail me at [email protected] and for a fee i may send you a copy.
Regards
Keith
 
K

Keith R E Hall

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They are coming directly from harland and wolf's main archives. They always keep a copy of the original blueprints of every vessel they build.
I contacted harland and wolf and they are going to get back to me.
Regards
keith
 

Jim Stein

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May 1, 2003
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Hi Keith along with Jim I'd be interested in the contact info, I'm chasing:-
If you come across any plans for any of the following ships
Germanic yard #86 1875-1950
Britannic 1 yard #83 1874-1903
Oceanic 1 yard # 73 1871
Baltic 1 yard # 74 1871
Atlantic yard # 74 1871
Adriatic yard # 77 1872
COuld you please let me know.
I would like to build a model of one of these ships, but so far all I
have is a profile of the hull and deck plan for the Baltic 1.
I need a body plan showing the hull lines.
Thanks Jim Stein
Australia
 

Bob Read

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Dec 9, 2000
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Keith:
This will be quite a trick since the H&W archive no longer is held at H&W.
Does anybody else smell the faint odor of fish?

Regards,
Bob Read
 
C

Christine Geyer

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I must say you keep our poor moderators very busy these days...
 
Jul 9, 2000
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In case anyone is getting some of these posts by e-mail notification, kindly let me take care of this. There hasn't been a lot of fire, so it'll be easy to clean up the mess. Keith, please be mindful of the e-mail that I'm sending your way. I am not going to tolerate flamewars in my threads.
 
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