Has there been another shipwreck like titanic


Russell Smith

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Jun 18, 2009
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That's a pretty broad statement. Many have. But not on the scale of Titanic. I believe the USS Indianapolis went down by the bow too.
 
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Ellen Grace Butland

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some years later there was a Norwegian (I think) ship which hit an iceberg and sank on the return leg of her maiden voyage. She had gone to Greenland and was on the way home. I cannot remember her name at present but she had passengers.
 
May 27, 2007
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What about the Empress Of Ireland. Collision and sank at night. Lost a lot more passengers then on Titanic. Also I'm not for sure on if she went down by the bow or not? Jason Tiller would know or Geoff Whitfield or any of our other ET alumni.
 

Russell Smith

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There was also the MV Explorer:


And the MS Fram:
(Is this the one you wer thinking of Ellen?)

 
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Ellen Grace Butland

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No, this ship sank between the two world wars, I think. She was scandinavian and was to run between Scandinavia and Greenland during the northern summer. I may have her in one of my books, but can't remember which. She is sometimes referred to as 'the forgotten titanic.'
 
May 27, 2007
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Hi Russ,
Yeah, The Empress was overshadowed that why they call her 'The Forgotten Empress'.

All,
The Portland Paddle Wheel Steamer Of 1898 might of sank at night. I'm not real sure. It was lost in Portland Gale away from land in 1898. I think it broke up but the bow section might of sank first. There were no survivors. I've heard it referred to as the Titanic Of New England. The Gale the ship was lost in was named after the Portland Ship even though a lot of other ships were lost and a lot of lives were lost on land and property damage was reported. Still the Portland Steamship disaster so horrified people of the day that the Gale was named for her. The Wreck Of The Paddle wheel Steamer Portland has been found. Whats left of it.
 
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Trevor Rommelley

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Heres another thing to ponder: the Titanic forced a rethink of the lifeboat situation. If everyone had been saved there might not have been such a debate on the lack of such lifesaving provisions (another point to ponder!) If so, ships might have been going to sea for a while after the Titanic with not enough boats, but how much longer? I mentioned this to someone and I said that perhaps the sinking of the Lusitania, or the Empress of Ireland might have prompted the rethinking of "boats for all." But then he admitted that both ships sank so fast, the issue of boats wasn't really an issue.

So, maybe the point is: what ship sank with sufficient time to save everyone, but with great loss of life, regardless of whether help did arrive (or didn't) in time.
 
May 27, 2007
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quote:

So, maybe the point is: what ship sank with sufficient time to save everyone, but with great loss of life, regardless of whether help did arrive (or didn't) in time.
The Arctic is one. September 27, 1854 saw this wooden Steamship collide the the Vesta a French Ship and sink. It sank slow to get the people off but the crew and certain passengers stole all the lifeboats there were leaving the passengers to the fates. Not a woman or child was saved from the sinking.

Women and children last; the loss of the steamship Arctic.
by Alexander Crosby Brown

Is the book to read. I read it in High School. Alexander Crosby Brown had relatives on board the ship who perished including his Great Aunt Grace Brown who he dedicated the book to.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Maralia/SS_Arctic
 
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Trevor Rommelley

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Thanks, I didn't know that ... did any repurcsions become the crew?

Was there a disaster like the one I mentioned post-Titanic? I don't suppose in this regard War losses "count" as heavy casualties would be expected. I can't help but feel that losses due to lifeboat inadequacies (and not due to lack of time) would have resulted in another loss but significantly after the Titanic.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>the Titanic forced a rethink of the lifeboat situation. If everyone had been saved there might not have been such a debate on the lack of such lifesaving provisions (another point to ponder!) <<

Not entirely accurate I'm afraid. The lifeboat deficiencies were well known and debated before the Titanic ever set sail, and there was space and weight set aside in the design of the Olympic class in anticipation of the new regulations which were expected to come down the pike. What Titanic did was speed things up a bit.
 
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Trevor Rommelley

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But how long would it have taken for "boats for all" to become law? Building a ship for something is one thing, but doing it is another matter. I know Walter Lord says in The Night Lives On says that many ships of many nationalities did not have 100% boat coverage. So how many of these other shipping companies pro-actively outfitted their ships in anticipation of new laws?
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>But how long would it have taken for "boats for all" to become law?<<

Got news for ya, it still hasn't.

Count the boats and the bodies on any cruise ship and you'll be in for quite a shock. The shortfall is "Made up" for with inflatable rafts. Of course, if you don't have a spot in the boat, and the seas are freezing when you have to swim for it, you'll be in some very deep trouble.

>>So how many of these other shipping companies pro-actively outfitted their ships in anticipation of new laws?<<

Not many and the only ship out there with boats for all was the infamous Californian. There was quite the rush on the Atlantic run to cobble up boats and quite a bit of knee-jerk regulatory changes but even with all of that, "Boats For All" hasn't happened everywhere.
 
May 27, 2007
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quote:

Thanks, I didn't know that ... did any repercussions become the crew?
I think so. Plus the infamy of being a Arctic survivor and Crewmen after all those Women and Children were lost. I bet a lot of the crewmen beat a hasty retreat. Well the ones not in jail. The Arctic has an unsung hero of the crew of sorts like Titanic whose story stuck with me. I wish I had done a report on her in High School but there wasn't a lot of information about her. Stewardess Anna (surname unknown) was either a Slave of the Ward Line or an Emancipated Slave and stewardess, who was last seen working the pumps by passengers. I guess she knew that she would not be getting off in a boat and she had a basic idea of how the pumps worked so she worked tried to work them. Alexander Crosby Brown mentions her in WACL.​
 

Ernie Luck

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The Wilhelm Gustloff must rank as one of the worst sinkings involving civilians with about 10,500 lost, during WW2. See topic under this heading below.
 

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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"So how many of these other shipping companies pro-actively outfitted their ships in anticipation of new laws?"

Quite a few did, resulting in some ships being reduced to floating boatyards, with dozens of boats that could never have been lowered in a real emergency. Imperator was a classic example, with boats all over her poop.

In Britain, the Board of Trade indulged in a little quiet blackmail. Letters were sent to ship owners on these lines.

The Green Funnel Line has advised us that it now carries boats for all. We look forward to similar action by your line.

The technology of the time was not up to the job and all sorts of dodges were tried. Aquitania had boats mounted on tracks, so they could be pushed across the deck to the most favourable side for lowering. Many ships had two boats per pair of davits, a practice that continued until the 1960s. The situation today is still imperfect.

It's all in Titanic: Monument and Warning.
 
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Ellen Grace Butland

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Thanks, it was the Hans Hedtoft. Just another of the many ships unknown today because of their very short life. And Michael's comment on modern cruise ships" lack of boats and reliance on rafts is all too true. I am sure there are no raft drills aboard these ships, possible not even a video shown on evacuation procedures. Lets hope the crews are well drilled (but I don't hold my breath on this one)
 

Jim Kalafus

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Hmmm...there's Canadian Pacific's Islander, which struck an iceberg and sank with proportionately heavy loss of life in 1901. Very Titanic-like.

Then, conversely, one has the San Juan which sank in less than three minutes and which had a BETTER survival rate than the Titanic. And the Columbia, which sank in 8 minutes, at night, with...again....better survival odds than the Titanic despite the loss of 88.
 

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