Helen Loraine Allison/Kramer - Survivor TITANIC Mystery


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thedebrina

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I am the granddaughter of Helen Lorraine Kramer who was told that she was actually Helen Lorraine Allison and who was listed as a victim of the Titanic disaster. She was the Daughter of Hudson J. & Bess Allison, first class passengers and who are known to have both perished with the sinking. This is a mystery that has had much speculation and is a story that I grew up with from my earliest memory.

Bottom line...all anyone need do is see a photo of Hudson Allison and my grandmother and if there was ever a father and daughter it is they...but, I have recently discovered a suitcase my Grandmother has had stored away for over 70 years. It is full of the photos, articles, atty reports and crucial letters from the allison family and others in support of her claim. Her daughter Adele, (82) my mother is still with me to interview and am seeking to tell and share this tale in it's truth and it's entirety once and for all.

NOTE: I am in contact with surviving members of the Allison family in support and who are willing to provide DNA evidence which should be forthcoming. We seek to on this 100th year since the disaster, to be able to prove her claim and ultimately return her ashes to the family grave site in Canada that we can lay her to rest and wish them all Peace after what has been a 100 year separation.
Please anyone interested in assisting me, or learning more...feel free to contact me.
Thank you.
Debrina Woods
Helen Lorraine Photo.jpg

Helen Lorraine Photo.jpg
 

Scott Mills

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You might want to click on Miss Helen Loraine Allison - Titanic Child Victim | Biography and Pictures

Not to rain on your parade, but Allison died in the sinking.
I think she is aware that Helen is listed as perished on Titanic. This appears to be a case where her grandmother was told at some point that she is Helen Allison, somehow rescued in a lifeboat. Sort of like the woman who thought she was a Rominov. Because of this the poster would like to get to the bottom of the family story and either prove or disprove it once and for all.

Were the situation reversed, I suppose I would want definitive proof myself, even if it was very likely my relative was not on Titanic.
 

Jake Peterson

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I just wonder what the family story is behind her escape, if Helen supposedly survived? Is it possible a survivor, especially a child, could go unnoticed or listed under a different name? Remember, no one knew who the "Titanic orphans" where until their mother came to get them.

Yeah, the theory doesn't make sense, since she'd be discovered eventually.

Could it be possible she survived and lived with a different family also on the Titanic?
 

Scott Mills

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I just wonder what the family story is behind her escape, if Helen supposedly survived? Is it possible a survivor, especially a child, could go unnoticed or listed under a different name? Remember, no one knew who the "Titanic orphans" where until their mother came to get them.

Yeah, the theory doesn't make sense, since she'd be discovered eventually.

Could it be possible she survived and lived with a different family also on the Titanic?
That would be the only scenario that made sense. Perhaps intrusted to someone at the last momemnt who takes her on a boat. The question would be though, why in gods name would you keep it secret from the world to only inform the woman herself later in life? That's the part that really makes the family myth absolutely immpossible to me.

BUT if her grandmother is still alive and the story true, then at least one Titanic survivor remains! And I am totally empathetic to both of their desires to know for sure, and even though I think it a nearly impossible story I would encourage the original poster to continue pursuing it.
 

Scott Mills

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Ah, well that makes sense. She would have been what? 104? In any case, op. Keep in mind Michael's warning. In all likelihood you will find the family story to be a myth. Having said that, I highly encourage you to pursue it. Whatever you find out will provide you an interesting piece of family history.
 
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>>Because of this the poster would like to get to the bottom of the family story and either prove or disprove it once and for all.<<

I wish her luck. The thing is that the names of the survivors is known beyond any genuinely reasonable doubt. If somebody slipped past, it would be one of the cleverest cherades of all time.
 

Scott Mills

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>>Because of this the poster would like to get to the bottom of the family story and either prove or disprove it once and for all.<<

I wish her luck. The thing is that the names of the survivors is known beyond any genuinely reasonable doubt. If somebody slipped past, it would be one of the cleverest cherades of all time.
I totally agree. However, when I was told my 3rd great grandfather was a general in the Confederate army, I worked very hard to find out the details despite the shape Confederate records were in (it turned out he was a Lieutenant in the Confederate corp of engineers after first being wounded as a Sergent serving in the Richmond Howitzers).

So if someone told me, "hey grandma was on Titanic," I would not hesitate to get to the bottom of the story! And I would know all along that the story wasn't true. Its just one of those things you ought to look into before everyone is dead, even though you know what the conclusion will bring. In other words, the search is the prize not proving grandma was on the ship. That's how it seems to me anyway.
 

hazel mccully

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I have been researching this claim thoroughly. Bessie Allison is my first cousin 3 times removed. My great great grandmother was her aunt Clara.

This claim caused a lot of distress to my family and I would be interested to see it resolved once and for all. I have many clear photographs of Loraine which have been passed down to me. My great grandmother was very close to Bessie, her cousin and they would write and send pictures to each other several times a month. These are still in my family. I would be especially interested if the OP has any clear close up pictures of her grandmother so that I can compare them with pictures of Loraine.
 

Scott Mills

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I have been researching this claim thoroughly. Bessie Allison is my first cousin 3 times removed. My great great grandmother was her aunt Clara.

This claim caused a lot of distress to my family and I would be interested to see it resolved once and for all. I have many clear photographs of Loraine which have been passed down to me. My great grandmother was very close to Bessie, her cousin and they would write and send pictures to each other several times a month. These are still in my family. I would be especially interested if the OP has any clear close up pictures of her grandmother so that I can compare them with pictures of Loraine.
Very interesting! Not knowing the details, would you mind me asking how something near a century caused distress to your family? Feel welcome to tell me that is none of my business, reply to me privately, or just ignore the question altogether. I would understand completely.
 

thedebrina

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I have been researching this claim thoroughly. Bessie Allison is my first cousin 3 times removed. My great great grandmother was her aunt Clara.

This claim caused a lot of distress to my family and I would be interested to see it resolved once and for all. I have many clear photographs of Loraine which have been passed down to me. My great grandmother was very close to Bessie, her cousin and they would write and send pictures to each other several times a month. These are still in my family. I would be especially interested if the OP has any clear close up pictures of her grandmother so that I can compare them with pictures of Loraine.
Ok you are all wrong...haha
NOTE:
Dear Hazel,
PLEASE know that I sincerely lament the distress caused to your family or anyone else as concerns this story....but my grandmother suffered the most of all. I saw her tears and also witnessed her strength of spirit and character to overcome such a sorrow-filled circumstance.

Ok so I have the advantage of 12 (now organized) binders that were discovered the weekend of the 100th anniversary as documents inside a suitcase my grandmother had stored away for 70 years. To shore my drive in undertaling this journey... it is ALL there in Black and white on rapidly yellowing paper.

and...It is very compelling evidence in support of her claim.

PLEASE all interested parties...take a moment to visit my new web site:

The Last Titanic Mystery - Home

to view the Story Summary and get the foundation for a tale that in TRUTH is much stranger, than fiction or PRECONCEIVED notions !!!!
I put up the web site because people had made so many (WRONG) assumptions on 70+ year old information or rather LACK there of and had never even seen her or compared the resemblance to Hudson etc....let alone have access o ATTY reports hidden in a caxche for 70+ years.

We are on the eve of doing DNA analysis to establish once and for all, the "WHO" as concerns her identity. Once that is substantiated we will focus on the "HOW" this could all have happened...

So every one, please just keep an open mind. IT is ALL detailed in the binders (which can be viewed at the web site.)
NOTE: Hazel, I have letter upon letter from Bess sister and many other Allison's and Daniel's and others who supported her claim (the ONLY two who deined her amidst hundreds, are Lillian Georges widow & Percy his younger brother, BOTH of whom were in line for (both) inheritances, Hudson's & Trevors) and would LOVE to be in contact with you soon in a more personal and less public forum. PLEASE contact me at the web site and I will get back to you ASAP. Thank you.
dw
 

Jake Peterson

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I don't have a problem with keeping and open mind. Having a look at your site now. It does seem to fit together. The only thing is, the note was written by Mr. James Hyde, an IMM board member, but I don't see him listed on this site as a survivor of the disaster. The note says he didn't spot her parents as survivors, but wasn't little Trevor saved?

still reading :)
 

hazel mccully

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Scott, I meant that it caused my family distress when the claim was first made in 1940. It is still emotional for the elder members of my family today, however because they remember the stress it caused.

Debrina I have read your website and seen your posts here and on another forum. I am sorry but Percy and Lillian were NOT in line for any money from Hudson's estate. I have his will and all the probate letters. It is very very detailed. Trevor did NOT die just before he was due his inheritance because he had only just turned 18 and would not have got any money until after he had turned 21.
Hudson was very clear and precise with what should happen with his money and with his properties and this was all carried out to the letter.

George made a lot more money that Hudson had and Lillian received this when he died. Percy had a multi million vacation complex. They did not care about any money of Hudson's. Please stop trying to make them out as criminals. Lillian raised Trevor Allison like her own son and there are many pictures of the little lad being shown as a happy, well loved individual. He was exceptionally close to his cousin Eric who was like a brother to him.

Several years ago I met up with the son of Lillian's sister who was there the day Trevor died. Trevor was with Arville and Sarah Daniels in Massachusetts when he became ill. Arville had tried to get him to see a doctor but being a young man, he refused thinking he could beat it. He then travelled by train to Portland, Maine where the Allisons were on vacation. He played on the beach, walking on his hands and showing off as boys of that age do. By the evening Trevor deteriorated and became violently ill. George and Lillian summoned a doctor but Trevor refused to be examined. He died hours later in his bed and the whole family was devastated. Phillip, Lillie's nephew still remembered her distressed wailing waking him up in the night.

If your only desire was to reunite your grandmother with her true family why make it so public? Why not hire a genealogist to trace the living family and then you could have got an attorney to contact them on your behalf to enquire about DNA testing. Why do it now, 100 years after the sinking when interest in the Titanic is at its peak? Why not do it earlier? This could have been done years ago and in private.

When and how did you come across this supposed suitcase? Why wait until the 100th anniversary to open it unless you are going for sensational dramatic story telling? Why not open it when you first found it?

On your website you show pictures of these binders but no detail can be seen at all. They could be of absolutely anything so I am not sure what they are supposed to prove.

If this is not about making cash then why are you planning a book about it? Why not just publish your story online where people can read it for free? If its not about the money then why post this on your site:

"We are planning both a (hard cover) book and also considering Ebook options, which will document all and we are also interested in reviewing any film or documentary interest that may exist."

If its not about the money, why have you - before DNA testing has even been completed, prepared a 1.5 hour lecture which you will charge for?



When the DNA testing has been completed will you publish the results if they show you are not related to Hudson and Bessie? What will you do if they show you are not related?



Exactly who is "James Hyde" There is no one by that name on the passenger or crew lists so what was his actual name? It is implausible to suggest that this is Thomas Andrews. If he had survived there is no way everyone involved would have kept quiet. Why would Andrews himself live a life in hiding raising someone else's little girl when he had a wife he was insanely in love with at home and a beautiful little 2 year old daughter of his own?

What name did your grandmother grow up with? Through research I know that she was known as Irene Evangeline when she met Beecher Ferguson but what was her maiden surname? I know she was a nurse and that by 1935 she was with Lawrence C Kramer. What did Mr. Kramer think of his wife's supposed father's revealation?

If your grandmother grew up in England lets say she finishes school at 15-16 years which was the norm back then in England. Between 1924/25 when she finished school and 1929 when her first child with Ferguson was born she must have travelled to America. She would have needed a passport how did she get this with no proof of who she was?

Your grandmother died in March 1992. whoever registered her death gave her name as Helen Loraine Kramer her birth date as 5 June 1909 and her father's surname as Allison. How was this allowed to happen?

Before the revealation in 1940 by "hyde" to your grandmother, what did she believe her birth date to be? Where did she believe to have been born?

Helen was almost three years old when Titanic sank. Why would she just accept being with this man? Why wouldn’t she cry and wail? She would have wondered where her parents and brother were.

How did she get from the lifeboat, to the Carpathia, to New York and then back to England without Alice Cleaver, Sarah Daniels, Mildred Brown, Arthur Peuchen, Madeleine Astor, Clara Hays, Orian Davidson, Mr. and Mrs. Spedden, plus John Wesley Allison, George Allison, Percy Allison, Arville Daniels, Sarah Daniels, Myrtle Daniels seeing her?? These were all close personal friends bar the speddens but they knew Loraine well because she played with their son on Titanic several times.

I have many more questions but will stop here. You can answer them all privately either here via private message or through my email [email protected] just remove the NOSPAM from the address.
 

Mike Poirier

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Didn't Loraine Kramer's lawyer say all the papers he had for the case were destroyed? So how do you have them Debrina?
 

Jim Kalafus

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I enjoyed Ms McCully's well presented list of rebutals and logic flaws very much. One wonders how every survivor who would have seen Lorraine placed into a lifeboat; how every passenger who was with her in a lifeboat; how the captain, officers, crew, and passengers, of the Carpathia, were ALL coerced into complete silence, and how they all acted in seamless unison ~under what might be called extreme stress~ to keep the child well hidden, and silent, during the voyage to NY and immediately after. The story makes no sense. If you peruse Doenetwork, you'll see that unfortunately there are a few cases of children abducted from disaster sites (one of whom found her way home after nearly 60 years) but Lorraine Allison was in a completely sealed environment, in which odds were astronomical that such a thing could happen~ unless an entire shipload of passengers and crew, PLUS 700+ Titanic survivors, simultaneously decided to cooperate.

GET LORRAINE ALLISON, as a conspiracy theory, is risible. It doesnt even work well as discussion fodder. WHAT would be the point? Although an attractive and loved child, she had no political or social import. It is not as if anti-monarchists suddenly had a shot at carrying off the last in line to some throne, as would happen in 19th century novels. So what we are left with is up to 1500 people all deciding to participate in an abduction for no apparent reason other than that they were asked and felt like cooperating.

From the Romanov children, to Charlie Ross, to present day serial killer victims, there has been an ongoing, and disturbing, pattern of cruel hoaxes perpetuated against families of missing and presumed dead children. This case seems to be far more in keeping with THAT scenario than it does the case of the girl abducted from the Babb Switch School fire who found her way home a lifetime later.
 

Jake Peterson

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So, wait...If Thomas Andrews was Hyde, why did he sign the note in 1940 as Hyde, rather then Andrews? At that point, wouldn't he have given his real name, if he was going to come clean about the whole deception?
 

hazel mccully

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Just want to say I am sure I have solved this.

Helen Loraine Kramer "married" Beecher Ferguson. they had two children in 1929 and 1930 in Michigan
In 1935, she was with Lawrence Kramer and they had two children in 1935 and 1937 in Michigan

In 1922 this same woman was with a Dr. Lester Robert Walsh in Michigan. Also in 1922 she had a son, Lester Leo John Walsh. When Lester Leo John Walsh applied for Social Security he gave his mother's name as Evangline Irene Lee Hyde which shows it IS the same Helen Loraine Kramer who claimed a "Mr. Hyde" rescued her off the Titanic.

Now in 1922 Helen Loraine Allison, had she lived, would have been 13 years old! not old enough to be married and with a child in Michigan when Ms. Woods claims her grandmother was being raised in England by this Mr. Hyde.

I hope this all makes sense. I will write it up in full later.
 

Jake Peterson

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Unless she became pregnant at that age. Rare, but it does happen, of course.

Just putting that thought out there.

Will be looking forward to reading your conclusions! This is all very intriguing.
 
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