Helen Loraine Allison/Kramer - Survivor TITANIC Mystery


_Janet

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Having thought about this, perhaps Ms. Woods is headed to the U.K. to retrace the footsteps of Hyde/Andrews and her grandmother. Quote from Ottawa Sun article May 30, 2012 Titanic mystery surrounds Chesterville woman | Ottawa & Region | News | Ottawa Sun “That little girl grew up in British boarding schools, believing she was the child of widower Hyde.” Now Mrs. Kramer I’m sure told Ms. Woods she grew up in British boarding schools, however that statement is inconsistent with Mrs. Kramer’s declaration to US Immigration on her AR2 application. On September 12[SUP]th[/SUP], 1940 Mrs. Kramer registered as an alien and declares she has resided the last 28 years in the United States, since arriving on the Carpathia, April 14, 1912. Also, Mrs. Kramer’s actions of registering as an alien are inconsistent with US census information where she submit she is a naturalized citizen of the United States. The census of April 6, 1940, can be found here: http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1940usfedcen&indiv=try&h=85311558 Mrs. Kramer also states on her AR-2 application she has 5 children, not 6.

I’ll repeat this question again. It is on other threads on Titanic Encyclopedia, that Mrs. Kramer was a member of the Titanic Historical Society THS in the early 1970s.
Can anyone tell me if she ever held an executive position in this organization?

Thank you

Citation - Alien registration AR-2 form available to the public. Number AR-2 2009893, filed Royal Oak Michigan, September 12, 1940.
 

_Janet

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From U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services:

"The alien registration number or "A-number" is an identifying number that United States Custom and Immigration Services assigns to certain aliens, such as those who apply for adjustment of status. A-numbers may consist of 8 or 9 digits. The A-number is yours for life, much like a social security number. From USCIS: Alien registration began in August 1940 as a program to record every non-citizen within the United States. The original Act of 1940 was a national security measure, and directed the former INS to fingerprint and register every alien age 14 and older within and entering the United States.

What's an A-File?

The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) began issuing each alien an Alien Registration number in 1940, and on April 1, 1944, began using this number to create individual case files, called Alien Files or A-Files.

A-Files contain all records of any active case of an alien not yet naturalized as they passed through the United States immigration and inspection process. An A-File might also be created without any action taken by the alien, for example if INS initiated a law enforcement action against or involving the alien.

In a few instances there are files on aliens who registered between 1940 and 1944. These files document aliens who received an Alien Registration number and form prior to 1944, and had an A-File created due to the re-opening of the case after 1944. Files from other series, such as Visa Files, were withdrawn and placed in the A-Files when cases were reopened in instances such as the filing of applications to replace a document, obtain a border crossing card, or petition for an immigrant relative.

What is the research value of A-Files?


[FONT=&amp] A -Files are a rich source of biographical information in that they contain relatively modern immigration documents, all in one file. Since the early 20th century the United States collected increasing amounts of information from immigrants and A-Files from mid-century hold a wealth of data, including visas, photographs, applications, affidavits, correspondence, and more.[/FONT]"

Mrs. Kramer never became a naturalized US citizen. She had an A-file where she could provide regular updates to US Immigration adding documents to support her claim. Her AR-2 application was part of this A-File and her last and final update to her A-file was January 1962, just prior to the 50[SUP]th[/SUP] anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic. A-Files are available to the public, through a normal genealogy request from US Immigration.


So, I wonder if Ms. Woods ‘Museum Documents’ are available to the public?

It is difficult to know whether Ms. Woods’ curator is trained in forensic auditing. Documents such as: ‘letters of support’ ‘birth certificate’ ‘private detective reports’ ‘letters written in the name of Hyde/Andrews’ ‘letters written in the name of George Allison’ ‘letters written by Arthur Flynn and/or in the name of Arthur Flynn’ and ‘Wills and estate information’

Notwithstanding this, there is likely a real ‘treasure trove of information’ available to the public on this topic. The best news, it’s free! Well, almost free. They charge a small fee for the file. Can’t wait!!!!
 

_Janet

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While we wait.......

The Titanic Historical Society, founded by Ed. Kamuda in the 1960s is a non-profit organization whose purpose is the preservations of the history of the Titanic. I was wondering about the non-profit part of this statement. Are they incorporated as a non-profit organization? Do they provide financial statements and/or a list of directors to their members? Do they elect their directors and/or president? As a non-profit organization are they exempt from paying taxes?

Does anyone know who the president of THS is right now?

The contrast of advertising yourself as a ‘non-profit’ organization while one browses their web site is startling. Is their Museum store part of the ‘non-profit’ Titanic Historical Society? This has striking similarities to Ms. Woods’ web site where she is selling her memorabilia.

Also, the societies publication ‘Titanic Commutator’ and the people writing articles for the Commutator, are they compensated? Is this publication owned by Karen & Ed Kamuda or is it a separate entity from the ‘non-profit’ society?

Do the Kamuda’s have a fiduciary interest in this publication?
 

_Janet

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May 29, 2013
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won't be long now..........stay tuned

I would like to pay my respects to Mr. Geroge Allison and his family, as well as too the legacy of Mr. Hudson & his family. The respects will not only be made by myself, but by the people of Montréal, who all know this family to heart.

Perhaps on your drive to Maple Ridge Cemetery you could pick up Montreal author Alan Hustak. His book Titanic: The Canadian Story was published in 1998. During the drive ask him the question who was his source for this statement in his book: “They were married against her parents’ wishes in Milwaukee Wisconsin” referring to George’s sister-in-law, Bess Allison nee Daniels. Then again with his concerns over who is funding an independent DNA project by Tracy Oost at Loraine Allison Identification Project | Did the Titanic claim her, or did she survive? he likely won’t be joining you for the drive or donating his money. He also shows little understanding of the laws in Ontario where he stated “The best she could do is scatter ashes around the monument.” in reference to Mrs. Woods September visit to Chesterville Ontario. Sure can’t blame him for that. It’s not well known the scattering of ashes in an Ontario cemetery is unlawful without approval.

Now Ms. Woods does have an interesting writing style where she says, quote:

“Members of the THS had also advised me long ago, that there were certain participants in the forum(s) whom THEY refer to as the “Titanic 12”, who were considered to be “essentially KOOKS”, or to be more sensitive, overly concerned (read obsessed) enthusiasts, who were at the very least “Hardly credible or worth any of my/their concern” and we keep close tabs on them all, should we have any recourse down the road. ANYONE can post ANYTHING there after all!”

KOOKS…..perhaps…… as I doubt montreal_universite1 or the general public landing on these pages with an interest in paying respect to the family would be aware of closed Facebook groups dedicated to Titanic history, passengers and crew research. These sites have members now numbering in the thousands and that’s where the real action is. Titanic Encyclopedia (1367 members) Titanic Passengers & Crew Research Group (1071 members) Titanic Historical Society (new & 444 members) A Facebook profile is needed and you must be invited. Most receive an invitation just for the asking. Note these groups are closed, not private. Not sure if Ms. Woods has been invited but I suggest she sign up. The Titanic 12 spend most days monitoring these sites, commenting and available for comment when needed. For a few, it’s like their personal fan club numbering in thousands. Depending on how famous they are, often they have their egos stroked. How great is that? Certain authors are noted for having an expertise on one particular family.

[FONT=&amp]How does one explain the apparent uncontrollable curiosity about Titanic families? Is this curiosity justified under the disguise of research? Or is it just plain and simple gossip? No doubt these Facebook groups are a ‘dream come true’ compared to the snail mail of past working alone, waiting days or weeks for a response. Now we have large groups exchanging information instantly. What a wonderful place to hang out, gather new information as it crops up. I would say the vast majority have no interest in making money from this tragedy, but how do you explain their curiosity? Is it just a macabre interest in the large group of well-known and/or wealthy individuals made famous solely for perishing on this unsinkable ship? Perhaps it’s the opulence or arrogance of it all. Wealth must have something to do with it as the event wouldn’t seem the same without the wealth connection. Is it the curiosity of how successful people reacted knowing their impending fate? Perhaps others fancy themselves budding ‘Titanic Historians’ although I find that phrase an oxymoron. More like ‘Titanic Enthusiast’ as what serious historian would dedicate their entire life to one maritime disaster.[/FONT]
 

_Janet

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1982, June - Interesting letter from Don Lynch to George Allison's nephew

June 15, 1982
Don Lynch
P.O. Box 10004
Beverly Hills, California​
U.S.A. 90213-3004

W. Trevor Allison
Box 738
Morrisburg, Ontario
Canada K0C 1X0

Dear Mr. Allison,

Thank you very much for your letter of May 16th. I
very much appreciate your responding to my notice in the
Montreal Gazette.

My reason for advertising for information on Hudson
Allison family is that I am connected with the Titanic
Historical Society of Indian Orchard, Massachusetts, and have
found the story of the Allisons to be very interesting,
albeit tragic. My desire is to write an article about
the family for their quarterly journal, The Titanic
Commutator.

I do not know if you are familiar with her, but in
the 1940s a Mrs. Laurence Kramer of Detroit was claiming
to be your cousin Loraine Allison. In the course of my
research I have confidently concluded that she is not your
cousin, and was wondering if your family ever established
who she was. Do you or any member of your family have any
letters she may have written attempting to establish her
identity? Could I possibly have photocopies?

I would also greatly appreciate any information you
have on Mr. and Mrs. Hudson Allison and their two children.
What were they like? What has your family told you of them
over the years, and do you yourself have any memories of
them?

Do you or any member of your family have any photo-
graphs of the Allisons which I could borrow just long enough
to have copies made? I would take the best possible care
of them and return them immediately. If you would prefer,
you could have them copied there and I would gladly reimburse
you for the cost. I normally have it done at the photo
department of a local department store, and the cost is under
ten dollars.

Please let me know which method you prefer. If you
wish to do it there, please let me know in advance of the
number of photographs and the cost. If you choose to send
them, please mark the envelope “Do Not Bend” to ensure their
safe delivery.

Finally, do you know whatever became of the three
servants the Allsions had with them on the Titanic? I
believe their names were Mildred Brown, Alice Cleaver, and
Sarah Daniels. I would be very interested in knowing more
about them.

Thank you again for your kind letter. I am looking
forward to hearing from you again soon.

Sincerely,

Don Lynch
Don Lynch June 1982 2.jpg

Don Lynch June 1982 2.jpg
 

thedebrina

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We are very sensitive to any and all opposing views on this quest and if you would like to contact us directly with your questions or information you feel might help us to show both sides of this story I will be dedicating a section to certainly every opposing view brought up here (POINT BY POINT and in as much detail as I am able) and from other forums etc...so it is an opportunity to have your voice and opinions really heard and addressed.

I never wanted a camp divided...I came here as you will see from the first posting, asking for your HELP.

Which really only served to ignite controversy and overly emotional debate. I will soon be finished with the Novel, Screenplay and NON-Fiction tome of the actual journey of discovery including publication of our documentation. NOTE: To those who are relying solely on information from the very faulty and often innaccurate public domaime, you are at a sever disadvantage.

In any case, I entered into this foray with absolulety no predjudice. Whatever the outcome I have information crucile to this story in the form of original documentation that was heretofore unavailable (AND THOUGHT TO HAVE BEEN DISTROYED) that I wanted to bring finally into the public domaine.

That it was not flattering to what we will show as much misconduct by many as concerns this story and so in many cases unpopular, can not be helped. It is information provided form the principles themselves and that we all believed should be allowed their own voice after 102 years.

You don't have to like it...but then YOU, we NONE of us, were not there. These people were...and we are simply trying to give them a fair voice in this matter.
 

thedebrina

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JANET - My Grandmother's (6th child) son Junior was hit by a car and killed as a child. In earlier refernce I refer to her having 5 children myself as I just forgot about Junior as he was not meantioned much to me as a child. Again, lets make this SIMPLE, I could and will address all questions I am able to if you will contact us directly (My webite is best: www.titanicslastmystery.com and if you do have information that might help us in getting in right (our only motivation) again we would be very appreciative at this eleventh hour and allow that you be credited for your efforts.

That this quest has deteriorated into such a negative and emotionally charged debate is disheatening to us and in the spirit of this season, we seek to unite in truth to tell a tale, without judgement, without predjudice and appeal to you with the same unbiased intention.

Of course those others among you who truly seek to supress us HAVE MUCH to want hidden forever...but this train has left the station.

And this story is NOT being told from MY or any others theorems, but from the words of the principles themselves.
 

thedebrina

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Apr 21, 2012
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Janet, we are well familar with the Letter from Don Lynch cira 1982 and maintain that it is an old one while he was on his search back in the day...it was what he knew at the time and represents only THAT place in time, along his invesitgation. Admittedly he did not get a lot right as pertains to much of this saga but as told to me "I am a historian and had to go with what I had"

We get that. We uncovered information that picks up where he left off. That we are being denied access to information on same said Allison side that might help to paint a more complete profile of all involved is lamentable but we too will eventualy go to print "with what we have". That IS how history is told. Snipettes here, snippetes there.

In fact, all we have paints such a sinsiter portrait of some of these people we would dearly LOVE to know anything good about them. NO ONE can be THAT sinster, surely...or maybe they can? And That ALL on the opposing side have sought ONLY to attack my grandmother again does not seem a historically unbiased approach, just say'n.

NOTE: We whole heartedly AGREE that there are MANY dedicated and recognised contributors involved here at the Encylopedia Titananca and my comments were never meant to dimminsh them in any way shape or form and I apologise for any and all confusion to that effect....still there ARE those "12" haha who ARE merely over emotionally invested enthusiasts who do tend to lend some confusion, no matter how well intended. But I apologise to all formally and wish God Speed.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>You know Debrina, you should give this up. DNA doesn't lie. You seem to have a problem with inconsitencies in your statements.<<

And that sums it up. The DNA has spoken, the claim is falsified. Game, set, match, done, closed thread.

Enough is enough.
 
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Arun Vajpey

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Subject barred.
I hope I won't be chastised for rejuvenating a thread about unpopular and obviously fraudulent subject, but one of the younger members mentioned the silly Helen Kramer claim in another thread today, which reminded me of something that I have often wondered about.

Now that DNA testing has put paid to the ridiculous survival story concocted by Helen Kramer in 1940 and later carried on by her granddaughter Debrina Woods, would one be rubbing salt on a would if one wonders what prompted that claim in the first place?

What I am trying to say is that when Helen Kramer made the original claim in 1940, interest in the Titanic was probably close to its lowest level for the past 109 years. The First World War, roaring twenties, Wall Street Crash, the great depression and the rise of Fascism in Europe had temporarily relegated the Titanic into a rather obscure corner of history. So, it seems to me that for a hitherto unknown woman to suddenly throw in such a ridiculous claim (which also involved secret 'survival' of Thomas Andrews as a Dr Jekyll turned into a Mr Hyde ;) ), someone must have instigated her into it. Since the claimant would have to know at least a few details about the Allison family that were not in the public record, that "someone" must have been a person who had known the family previously, perhaps even on board the Titanic.


I stress that it is only a theory that has crossed my mind a few times and not based on any evidence. And I am not thinking of Mildred Brown or Alice Cleaver; perhaps another lady who would have been in her mid-60s in 1940.
 
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Thomas Krom

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The whole Helen Kramer story caused the Allison family lot’s of pain and stress. After the DNA results came out and confirmed the colossal fraud that haunted the Allison family for years they wanted to be left in peace.

There is documented evidence supplied by a Miss McCully that Mrs. Kramer was born as Evangeline Irene Lee Hyde and married in the early 1920s to a Dr. Lester Robert Walsh and had a son with him named Lester Leo John Walsh in 1922, this was her first marriage. If Helen Lorraine Allison were alive she would have been 12 to 13 years old in 1922, too young to be married and have children.

We sadly do not know exactly what was going on in Mrs. Kramer’s head when she made the claim and I believe we will never know if anyone ever visited her to inspire her story that had any ties to the disaster.

To cite Mr. Standard above me: “The DNA has spoken, the claim is falsified. Game, set, match, done, closed thread. Enough is enough.” Helen Lorraine Allison was one of the 1496 victims of that fateful night, being sadly the only child in 1912 standards who died that fateful night (In modern standards José Pedro Carraú-Esteves (1894-1912) can be counted as a child victim as well, who was 17).
 
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Arun Vajpey

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The DNA has spoken, the claim is falsified. Game, set, match, done, closed thread. Enough is enough.
Of course. Even before the DNA results were announced, most of us believed that the Helen Kramer claim was a colossal fraud, aimed solely at a large slice of the family fortune, despite Debrina Woods' pathetic assertions to the contrary. The test only confirmed it.
Helen Lorraine Allison was one of the 1496 victims of that fateful night, being sadly the only child in 1912 standards who died that fateful night
Not quite. She was the only First Class child victim. There were 52 others, I believe.

I believe we will never know if anyone ever visited her to inspire her story that had any ties to the disaster
True. But given the events and time frames involved, I have a feeling (and nothing more) that someone did.
 
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Why pretend to be somebody your not? I can't speak to people's motives because I'm not telepath, but you can find some hints at what they say and do. Some genuinely believe their own claims or the claims they're advocating on behalf of friends or relatives. I've seen Ms. Woods for example say something about taking her "rightful place" within the family, although I have to wonder what they think their rightful place is or what they hope to access. After all, the Allison family's standing and fortunes are not what they were.

Some are in fact fortune seekers or they want some sort of status and standing which would go along with any claim to fame they assert.

Whatever their motives, Titanic passenger/crew and relatives imposters are all and sundry and have been around since 1912.

Whatever their motives, it's just there!
 
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Nov 14, 2005
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I read thru this entire thread. Interesting. She seems to be doubling down on her claim with her latest update on her website. Didn't look at her facebook page. Maybe my loss but not a fan of FB. Anyway as others have pointed out..whats the motivation? History? ...a piece of the pie (family fortune). I'll leave that up to others to decide. I happen to believe in the science of DNA testing so until proven otherwise I have to go with that. All that I have read over the years about this is that the poor little girl went down with the Titanic. Mostly because of issues with her mom and dad but that's for another thread. A couple of news articles if anyone is interested. Cheers.
 
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lucykathleen

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what i read was that the hadd stays on starbord side . the go not from boar why the had seeks the baby brother. the nanny had him saved . she was in another life bord....
 

Arun Vajpey

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I've seen Ms. Woods for example say something about taking her "rightful place" within the family, although I have to wonder what they think their rightful place is
Reading her posts on this thread, Debrina Woods comes across as someone who believes that if she persisted with her fairy tales long enough, people might start believing them. Notice how she never gave a straight answer to any relevant question about evidence, DNA results etc but went on and on irrelevantly about how "successful" her campaign was.
Some are in fact fortune seekers
I have no doubt that when the original claim was made by Helen Kramer back in 1940, access to the Allison family fortune was the prime motive. There was very likely a prime cut to be set aside for the instigator in case the claim had succeeded.
 
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Reading her posts on this thread, Debrina Woods comes across as someone who believes that if she persisted with her fairy tales long enough, people might start believing them. Notice how she never gave a straight answer to any relevant question about evidence, DNA results etc but went on and on irrelevantly about how "successful" her campaign was.

I have no doubt that when the original claim was made by Helen Kramer back in 1940, access to the Allison family fortune was the prime motive. There was very likely a prime cut to be set aside for the instigator in case the claim had succeeded.
If the newspaper articles are accurate it should have ended when she claimed Mr. Hyde was Thomas Andrews hiding on a farm or whatever. And also when she said she was entitled to the Allison's wealth in 1992. The motivation is pretty obvious after reading more on it. Plus the thing with the ashes raises red flags for me also. You think one would wait until there was proof in your favor which there wasn't. This whole story seems like a waste of a good bandwidth to me. Cheers.
 
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