Henry Reginald Lee (F. Martin)

Apr 22, 2006
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What books did merchant seamen need to show when they signed onto a ship and what information did they contain also where can I find a list of all the Titanic passengers that the Carpathia picked up
 
Dec 2, 2000
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If you go to the Passenger list section, just take note of any of the names in italics. Those are all the survivors and all the survivors were picked up by the Carpathia.

Perhaps David Haisman can speak to what seamen were required to read and know but I don't know of any formal training courses for seamen in the merchent marine. My understanding is that somebody would sign on as an Ordinary Seaman (Little more then a glorified deck swabber and brightwork polisher) and the rest of the training was On The Job.

Don't take that as Gospel as I may be dead wrong about that. Things were changing at the turn of the century so there may well have been formal training available.
 
A

Andrew Williams

Guest
Hi Matthew,

A big thank you for confirming the above.

Don't get me wrong but am I right to assume that you haven't done any background history on your family as yet?

One never knows what secrets are hiding with the Census.

A.W.

P. S. Mike - not so sure whether I should've posted this message after your recommendations. Whether you wish to transfer this addition to Matthew's newly appointed post under Crew research, remains entirely up to you.



A.W.
 
Apr 22, 2006
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Yes Andrew you are quite right with regards my lack of family research and that is my next port of call, to look at the census to find out his family members names and addresses. I believe H R Lee had a brother and that a distant relative called Arthur had done some research into H R Lee and that he may have some knowledge of the change of names. It is strange that my mother recalls that on every anniversary of the sinking up to the 1965 when he died that Cunnard sent a car for him for the survivors reunion, if this is the case by what name was he known to them and would Cunnard be able to provide more details ??
 
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Andrew Williams

Guest
Mike - greatly appreciated and thanks.

Matthew - In about two hours time I shall be whizzing off to work to earn my daily crust.

I was going ask you another question but as you have introduce another name (Arthur) were there anymore brothers and sisters you know of?

Late last night, I did check the 1891 British Census and found nothing for H.R.L under the Isle of Wight. There's an H.R.L born in Berkshire but his birth year isn't listed as 1883.

Hope this helps.

A.W.
 
Apr 22, 2006
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Hi Andrew thanks for that but I have looked at the 1901 census and found an HRL 18yrs born Portsea hants which is next to the Isle of wight and note his mother was called Louisa (father not mentioned) and he had two brothers and a sister, one brother was called George which my mother thought was the name of one of his brothers she mentioned before I looked at he census so it is a possibility that this is the family line I am looking for and that Arthur is related to one of the Brothers how could I find out more
 

Dave Gittins

Member
Apr 11, 2001
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Michael is correct about the lack of training for seamen as of 1912.

The rank of Able Seaman was obtained by three years of satisfactory service and an Ordinary Seamen.

Crewmembers of all kinds carried a little book called a Continuous Certificate of Discharge. This listed all their voyages.
 
Apr 22, 2006
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Thank you Dave that is very useful information where can I find details of the ships of the white star line and of any sailings around the time of the Titanic with crew lists
 

Dave Gittins

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Apr 11, 2001
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Matthew, crew lists do exist in various archives but I'm no expert. There are many gaps in the records.

Our resident expert is Inger Sheil, but she's wandering the world at present. Let's hope she drops in.

The dates of sailings are a bit easier. They are common in contemporary newspapers. The ones most readily available on microfilm are The New York Times and The Times. Major libraries often have these.
 
Apr 22, 2006
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Let sleeping dogs lie I wish i hadn't started this enquiry as many of my family are adamant and they have their theories but it has got me to me now, I am trying to be as objective as possible. In the photo of Reginald Robinson Lee he is wearing the uniform of a paymaster if so when was it taken and what rank is he if it is a rank? also are there any photos of the crew and of the titanic crew in the the follow up enquiry etc.
 

Dave Gittins

Member
Apr 11, 2001
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Matthew, there is a photo of Reginald Lee on page 220 of The Titanic Disaster, a compilation of newspaper articles assembled by Dave Bryceson. The same book has many photos of crewmembers. Many others are in Titanic Voices.
 
Apr 22, 2006
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Thanks Dave I think I have that book but left it in a property of mine in Spain but my wife is bringing it back on Friday, is this the same photo that was taken in the Daily Sketch at the enquiry. I am also obtaining some photos of HRL but I believe these have been taken later in his life and I am trying to contact the son of HRL's youngest daughter who coincidentally also emigrated to Oz who may have some further info
 
Dec 2, 2000
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I don't think paymaster is a rank and he certainly wouldn't have been considered to be an officer unless he was in military service and held a commission at an officer's rank. I'm not aware of any point in Lee's career where he served in that capacity though some crew researchers may know otherwise.
 
Apr 22, 2006
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If all the surivors were picked up by the Carpathia did they all eventually reach this ship by lifeboat or were any picked up on floating debris direct?. Did the Carpathia launch any of its lifeboats to search for survivors. Is the life boat survivors list comprehensive or is there also a miscellaneous list
 
Dec 2, 2000
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Every one of them made it to the Carpathia on a lifeboat. There were 712 survivors in all,no more, no less, all of whom were documented by the Carpathia. There are no other lists. As far as I know, Carpathia put none of her boats in the water however, the Californian searched for any additional survivors for a brief time before resuming her course to Boston.
 
Dec 6, 2000
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Matthew, if you are asking are there Lifeboat Lists the answer is NO.

For Titanic's Crew there are several Lists all held by the Public Record Office. - Sign-on [you can find transcribed copies on this web-site, under: People - Other Groups - Crew Signing-on Sheets], Lost/Saved, plus a List signed by all surviving Crew for their Final Pay. There is also a Master C&D List which gives numbers to all of the Crew who signed-on. - This proves that there is no possibility that a Henry Reginald Lee was on the Titanic.

The surviving passengers are listed on what are generally referred to as the Carpathia Lists. - They are held by the National Archives in New York: http://www.archives.gov/research/index.html. - The 2nd Class pages are missing, but I understand typed copies are held in Washington DC.
 
Apr 22, 2006
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Hi Lester and thank you I totally agree that there was no one in the name of Henry Reginald Lee on the Titanic and I wish it were that simple so I could draw a line under this faker (did I spell it correctly) but it is the introduction to the story of this swapping books which has added a twist and which I have heard from 2 sources when he supposedly signed on and I also believe that there are a small number of the surviving crew for which no details can be found. With this twist I have no evidence he was ever on the Titanic but I have no evidence he wasn't. Before 1912 little is known about him so I have decided to first find evidence that he was a merchant seaman by trawling through crew lists from ships of the time to find out in what capacity he crewed and if I can find his name on any ships at the time of the sinking, a tall order I think
but I don't want to draw a conclusion until all the evidence is in then I can delete his name from this web site
 

david lee

Member
Nov 11, 2007
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I may be a little late to enter the discussion on Henry Reginald Lee, but he was my great uncle, his mother - my great grandmother - was Lousia and a brother Arthur was just one of his siblings that included my grandfather Bertram. It was always accepted that Henry was a crew member on the Titanic and I remember in around 1958 when he was guest of honour at the premier of the film A Night to Remember. But my own research into my family history and that of Reginald Robinson Lee has led me to conclude that Henry was living a lie. There is no evidence whatsoever that he was ever onboard the Titanic and that is a great pity. The only link between the two families is that they were both Portsmouth (Portsea) families.
 

david lee

Member
Nov 11, 2007
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Regarding the status of Reginald Robinson Lee whilst he was in the Royal Navy, he was most certainly an officer in the rank of assistant paymaster. His last ship HMS Diadem was a 11,000 ton 1st class cruiser. He would have been responsible not just for pay but also for the victuals and ship's stores and he would also be a secretary to the Captain. A Paymaster was known in the RN to be an arduous job and the constant burden of the job may well have been the cause of his decline into a reliance on alcohol. But his drop in status to become a merchant seaman may well have been his saviour, being away from the heavy responsibility of his previous career. Another sad tale.