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How could more passengers have been saved? [was: Titanica Members' Remarkable Obsession with Trivia]

Discussion in 'Collision / Sinking Theories' started by John Jaeger, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. PJM26

    PJM26 Member

    The idea of assembling a functional raft using wicker furniture or whatever random assortment is a fun idea.

    But given the apparent circumstances it would be an immediate indication that the ship was doomed and that everyone's lives were at risk.

    And, yes, perhaps the Archies (Butt and Gracie) and the other potential heroes aboard could have nailed some bookshelves with some mattresses underneath them (what were those made of?) or something...but the idea of that being done for 800 or 1000 people combined with the loading of the ordinary lifeboats is a bit of a stretch.

    Also if any rafts were constructed it would have been a nasty scene in the water (much like it probably was around collapsible B).

    Some more people could've made'r I wager if panic didn't get the better of the ship, but far from everyone on board.

    I would however like to see an inventory of all the ships's furniture (or other buoyant material) just out of curiosity...
  2. Jim Currie

    Jim Currie Member

    The idea of buckling in the middle was an absurdity based on the evidence of 5th Officer Lowe and promoted by the Wreck Commissioner, Lord Mersey. In fact, the following exchange proves the point:

    The Witness: William D. Archer - Principal Ship Surveyor to the Board of Trade.

    "24508. Now it has been stated here that there was a fear of the boats buckling. Can you suggest any way to strengthen those boats so that there would be no fear of buckling?
    24509. (The Commissioner.) They did not buckle, you know, and it was an ill-founded fear, it was only in the minds of people who did not know.
    William D. Archer:
    I understand the boats had been tested with the full weight on board, and they did not buckle."

    The test in question was to load a boat with evenly distributed pig iron ingots euqivalent to the highest ever expected full load. In the case of Titanic, a standard boat was certified for 65 persons. The theoretical weight of a "person" for capacity and testing purposes was 165 lbs. It follows that during the BoT test of a lifeboat, a standard Titanic lifeboat would have been loaded with 4. 8 long tons of iron, raised clear of the water and held suspended for the requisite test time. I suspect that the test period would be equal to the heoretical lowering tim + 5 minutes.
  3. John Jaeger

    John Jaeger Member

    Bravo! Had each lifeboat been overloaded by 10 additional people, just imagine. Then build some rafts with the tons of wood and construction materials aboard.
    Surely there were many able craftsmen who could have assisted in such efforts.
  4. John Jaeger

    John Jaeger Member

    "The crew" does as it is instructed by senior officers. The lifeboats were designed to be launched with the tackle provided, were they not? Moreover, in accordance with the adage of "women and children first," those two categories are the most lightweight. Finally, they could have pressed towards each end of the lifeboats until floated to diminish the stress on the middle when suspended. But given the depth of the lifeboats, buckling seems extremely unlikely. They're not flimsy things.
  5. John Jaeger

    John Jaeger Member

    Criticism is easy, and art is difficult. You suggest more could have been saved HOW..... exactly?
  6. Just came across this subject.
    Seems it has not been active for a while.
    This question may have already come up and has been answered......
    Would it have been possible to save all some 2200 persons and get them safely to New York ? (Passengers, Officers, Crew, etc.)
    And how ?
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
  7. TimTurner

    TimTurner Member

    Not hitting the iceberg would be one way.

    Part of the problem with "what ifs" is anything can be a what if. What if aliens came by and saved everyone? Or what if the Titanic had been sailing in tropical waters? What if she had more life boats?

    You have to make some choices about what ifs you can ask, and what ifs you can't.
  8. A ship that never sails is 100% safe from the perils of the sea. Perhaps Lord Pirrie should have cancelled his 1907 dinner with J. Bruce Ismay. No dinner...no discussion...no Olympic Class...no Titanic...no reason for this forum.

    -- David G. Brown.
  9. TimTurner

    TimTurner Member

    One of the bigger issues with "what if" scenarios is that people on the Titanic had limits that we don't have today sitting at home on our computers.

    These are some of the big limits:
    1. They had two hours to think of, organize, and implements a plan.
    2. They had 2000 people with different educations, experiences, languages and no PA system with which to communicate.
    3. They had to act in the uncertainty of the moment. I can tell you as a fact that the Titanic sunk and most people died. Sitting on the deck of the Titanic, if you told me at 11:30pm that the ship was going to sink and the only way to save myself was to ram the ship into the iceberg I would have had you locked up.
    Harland Duzen likes this.
  10. 1 and 2 - " The terrible 'if's' accumulate."
    3 - If you told me at 11:30 pm that the ship was going to sink I would have had you locked up.
  11. Aaron_2016

    Aaron_2016 Member

    Reminds of the Twilight Zone episode 'No Time Like the Past.' The main character travels back in time to 1915 and tries to stop the Lusitania from sinking by telling the Captain what is about to happen.

    Captain Turner - How do you know this?
    Time traveller - If I told you you'd probably say I was a lunatic.
    Captain Turner - I won't deny that.
    Time traveller - I'm only asking you to alter course one degree. One single degree!
    (Captain Turner finds a steward and orders him to have the disturbed gentleman escorted back to his room.)

  12. TimTurner

    TimTurner Member

    See, I'm speaking from personal experience. That guy popped up, told me what was about to happen, and wham, I locked him in his quarters.

    I've regretted it ever since. How was I supposed to know he wasn't trying to steer me into a torpedo, and not away from it? These time travelers are really unreliable.
  13. The question is wrong because the answer cannot be changed. It's already fact that the ship sank with great loss of life.

    The right question is, "How do we prevent such loss of life in the future?"

    -- David G. Brown
  14. Everything is easier in hindsight... that's why Hegel said that Minerva's owl spreads its wings on the sunset, meaning that the understanding of the events only happens AFTER they took place...

    R.M.S TITANIC Member

    Has anyone responded to me or not? If not, then why did people not grab anything that floats and float on it once the ship sank?
  16. Rob Lawes

    Rob Lawes Member

    I'm sure some survivors did just that however the key to survival was staying dry. The water was just too cold to permit anyone to last long.

    Believe it or not, a significant number of passengers would have died just entering the water. Their hearts would have experienced something similar to an electric shock.
  17. Harland Duzen

    Harland Duzen Member

    Some poor people were even killed by their lifejackets as the cork pushed up on their necks damaging them upon hitting the water.
  18. Rob Lawes

    Rob Lawes Member

    I considered liking your post Martin but didn't think that would be appropriate.

    Suffice to say, as one who has had to attend a number of basic and intermediate sea survival courses, the hazards of entering the water are numerous and, without instruction on how to safely do so, it is often fatal. Even modern lifejackets can rise up on impact with the water and break the wearers neck.

    In the navy we were always taught that the best lifeboat you have is the ship you are stood on and every effort possible should be made to ensure it remains afloat.

    Amazingly in the Royal Navy, real efforts to work on sea survival and damage control weren't made until after the second world war.
  19. Harland Duzen

    Harland Duzen Member

    I heard of this:

    Edgar Pask

    (Don't Try This At Home)

    (Also, is it's a odd coincidence he was also born in 1912?)
  20. That is strange, considering that one a battleship sinks, it usually takes all the hands with it, taking into account the huge amount of fuel and ammunition that is stored in there...