How Did Officer Moody Die

Inger Sheil

Inger Sheil

Member
Um...Erik? I never said that Moody couldn't be placed on the Starboard side. I have no reason to doubt Moody was where Hemming placed him - working at collapsible A. I have merely pointed out that the source alleging he was sighted with a head injury has been debunked. Also, there is no evidence that Lightoller saw Moody there - indeed, he categorically stated that he did not. However, he did state that he had heard later that Moody was working on 'A' with Murdoch.

No eyewitness report has been identified that places Wilde at 'A'. Quite possibly he was there - we can only directly place Moody there through Hemming's testimony, for example. However, this must clearly be identified as conjecture in light of the lack of witness statements.

All the best,

Inger
 
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Inger Sheil

Inger Sheil

Member
Hallo, Erik -

Re Wilde's movements - does the timeframe for your question He isn't really seen anywhere aft of the officers quarters. Is he? refer to the entire evacuation? Off hand, I can think of a few instances where Wilde was seen working aft on the boats. Joughlin places him at No. 10 and Scarrott said that it was Wilde who ordered woman and children into No. 14. Scarrott also mentioned that Wilde had ordered him to go to No. 14 while he was assisting at No. 13.

Regards,

Inger
 
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Erik Wood

Member
Inger,

Then why would the CPOE (crew particulars of engagement, which is concluded by the admiraly as well as the EBOT)say that Lightoller saw Moody there at 2:18am. The Head Injury is more of a theory which a lot of this is as well. I am currently ran sacking the BBOQ as well as the American one plus both Lightoller and Gracie's book to get you paragraph numbers and page numbers. This could be an opinion, but Lightoller stuck to his word that he say Murdoch trying to launch boats and they he (Murdoch did not commit suicide). I guess I am trying to piece the holes together and there are far to many to plug. Holes in evidence and testimony. Plus the coffee stains on papers. I do apologize, I had mis read your post and assumed that you meant that Moody was not starboard side. Let's see if we can't figure this out.

Erik
 
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Tommy

Member
Is it known what happened to Officer Moody?

[Moderator's note: This message, originally posted to an unrelated thread, has been moved to this thread addressing Moody's death. MAB]
 
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Matteo Eyre

Member
I don't think it is known but i think there are only 2 real options, he either froze to death in the freezing water or was pulled under by suction like Lightoller but didn't get blown to the surface
Matteo :)
 
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Katy Phillips

Member
Theoretically, he could have died some debris-related death as well. A pity, as young as he was. I always found it curious he didn't somehow end up ordered into a lifeboat. Could a senior officer have ordered him to go?
 
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Matteo Eyre

Member
It would have been possible for this to happen as i believe, and correct me if i'm wrong that Boxhall was ordered into boat number 2 by Lightoller, he did have an opportunity to go in a boat. boat 14, but he told Lowe to take his place, his original placing was boat 16 which he helped load and lower but i don't know why he wasn't saved in that
Hope this helps
Matteo :)
 
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Ioannis Georgiou

Member
It would have been possible for this to happen as i believe, and correct me if i'm wrong that Boxhall was ordered into boat number 2 by Lightoller, he did have an opportunity to go in a boat. boat 14, but he told Lowe to take his place, his original placing was boat 16 which he helped load and lower but i don't know why he wasn't saved in that
Hope this helps
Matteo :)

Boxhall was ordered into No. 2 by Captain Smith. Lightoller has nothing to do with the loading of boat No. 2, it was Wilde and Smith.
According to Lowe he was loading No. 14 and Moody No. 16 and then Lowe mentioned that an officer should go and Moody said to Lowe to go and he would follow with another boat.
 
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Matteo Eyre

Member
My apologies i wasn't certain as to who it was, yes that convo did happen and Moody could just as easily have joined Lowe in the boat or enquired as to whether he could board a lifeboat, but he chose not to, a hero to the end
Matteo :)
 
Auden G Minor

Auden G Minor

I am a Titanic enthusiest!
Member
I do believe that Jack Thayer reported that there was an officer following him. When they got to collapsible B, the man got on top, but at the time he got up, he was dead.
 
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Chung Rex

Member
I don't think it is known but i think there are only 2 real options, he either froze to death in the freezing water or was pulled under by suction like Lightoller but didn't get blown to the surface
Matteo :)
Were he not blown to the surface, his body's air would be pulled out rapidly after he went unconscious. At some depth, the corpse's buoyancy was lost and could not re-float to the surface. It might have been the fate of some passengers who fell into water at wrong place and wrong time, especially for those who did not wear lifebelts.
 
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Sarah S

Member
Hello again,

There are some things that don't leave my mind, namely how sad James Moody's fate was. Of course the entire disaster was devastating and every single soul that was lost in the process is heartbreaking. But I somehow feel especially sad for Moody. He was the most junior officer and out of all the officers who had perished, I sometimes feel like Moody's death could have been avoided the most. I hope nobody misunderstands this in any way. But considering the irrevocable damage which basically doomed the ship, it was obvious that the captain with the senior officers will not leave the ship until all the passengers left the ship savely. But for the junior officers it was different. It could have been possible they would be ordered into a boat, like it happened with Pitman or Boxhall. In Moody's case, I think he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. If he had been present at the time when boat 5 was lowered, I wonder if Murdoch would have ordered him into the boat instead of Pitman, given his junior status. Or in any other case where a boat was lowered, I seriously wonder how it didn't happen that Murdoch or Wilde simply ordered Moody to man one of the boats. I also wonder during the brief exchange between Lowe and Moody who should man the boat No 14, if Lowe, being senior to Moody, could have just ordered for Moody to enter the boat, I wonder if Moody would still have turned it down and told Lowe to do so instead. But since Lowe asked in a more "me or you" kind of way, Moody decided to give him precedence in the heat of the moment. I hope nobody gets this wrong, of course I don't wish another officer to switch places with Moody, this is more kind of like "How came it that no one simply ordered Moody into the boat, like Murdoch, Wilde, Captain, Lowe, the senior officers that worked side by side with him? Didn't they pay attention to him at all? Or was Moody just too absorbed into the situation that he himself detached from the idea of getting into a boat and settled with that? Or maybe he was commanded to enter a boat but he rejected it, like Lightoller did?"

Moody helped countless people in that night, he was with Murdoch one of the most effective officers. But it still doesn't leave my mind, that it is so sad that he had to die so young.
Even at the inquiry, his presence during the evacuation was rarely stressed by witnesses. Lightoller himself even mentioned how he didn't even see him that night at all. I find this very sad.

These are just thoughts that crossed my mind. I know this forum rather strives for more educational and factual postings, but I had the urge to share some of my thoughts I amassed throughout the past year.
 
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Thomas Krom

Thomas Krom

Member
Good day to you Sara,


For over a few months now I try to find a trace of sixth officer Moody his last steps during the sinking, especially between 1:40 to 2:10. I've started a thread about that here: Where was sixth officer Moody between 1:41 and 2:10?

Upon my recent findings I discovered that at lifeboat number 10, which was loaded and lowered by chief officer Wilde and first officer Murdoch (it being the only lifeboat first officer Murdoch lowered on the port side). During the loading process Second class passenger Nora Agnes Keane (1866-1944), who is believed to have been in lifeboat number 10, described the following during an interview with The Patriot on either the 20th and 23th of April:
"First an officer and two men were put in it. The officer was then ordered out and two men, both green hands, were put in."

If the story is true this officer she described could have been sixth officer Moody, who assisted Murdoch since the loading process of lifeboat number 9, I believe I might know a reason why he was ordered out. This is purely speculation on my part but there still were two more lifeboats on the starboard side, where first officer Murdoch was to move to after lifeboat number 10. These lifeboats being collapsible Engelhardt lifeboat C (which was stored on the deck and wasn't prepared for as yet) and collapsible Engelhardt lifeboat A (on the roof of the officers quarters). First officer Murdoch could have realized that sixth officer Moody could prepare the collapsible lifeboats for him and ordered him out to do that, to potentially save time and with that more lives. This theory only is about the officer that was ordered out however.

The following theory of sixth officer Moody staying with the Titanic has been proposed by Inger Sheil and Kerri Sundberg back in 1999.
"Moody's reasons for not leaving Titanic when he had the opportunity to do so can only be a matter of conjecture. When Lowe told him to take command of No. 16 there were still lifeboats to be launched – possibly he had every intention to "get in another boat". Other factors might have intervened – Wilde or Murdoch could have set him to work on the starboard boats. There is also an unknown psychological element - he might have been attempting to prove something to his fellow officers, his family, or even himself. More probably, the sense of duty both innate and instilled in him through his training might have prevented him leaving, even if he was ordered to do so by an officer more senior than Lowe; the same concept of duty and honor that would see tens of thousands of his generation slaughtered on the fields of Flanders a few short years into the future. Quite simply, he might have felt that staying with the ship was the right thing to do. There was nothing passive or simply stoic about his apparent acceptance of his fate – from what we know, to the very end he was engaged in trying to find practical ways to save lives and fulfill what he perceived as his duty to crew and passengers."

I hope this might offers some insight.

Kind regards,

Thomas
 
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Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
More probably, the sense of duty both innate and instilled in him through his training might have prevented him leaving
I have a very strong feeling that the above opinion explains Moody's mindset. being the junior most officer he probably did not want to voice his opinion but I think he personally felt that as an officer it was his duty to remain on board for as long as possible while helping passengers and crew into lifeboats. There were times when Moody was the only officer around - for example near Lifeboat #15 after Murdoch left to see to #10 - and he appears to have maintained control and done a good job.

As for his fate, I believe that by the time the near-accident between Lifeboats #13 and #15 was avoided and both rowed safely away, it would have been close to 01:45 am. It is my belief that Moody, McElroy and probably Nichols then went forward on the starboard side to where Collapsible C was getting ready to be loaded. They probably started loading it but when Murdoch arrived (after lowering Lifeboat #10), he would have taken over. Survivor statements suggest that Murdoch and McElroy continued, completed and launched Collapsible C while Moody and some of the other crew got on to the roof of the Captain's quarters to free Collapsible A and get it ready. That would have been - and turned out to be - a very difficult task against the port list. They managed to get it onto the boat deck but were unable to attach it to the davits and were still struggling to do so when the wave caused by the Titanic's sudden lurch downwards at the bow hit them.

Most likely Murdoch and Moody were among those washed away to their deaths by the wave.
 
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Sarah S

Member
Good day to you Sara,


For over a few months now I try to find a trace of sixth officer Moody his last steps during the sinking, especially between 1:40 to 2:10. I've started a thread about that here: Where was sixth officer Moody between 1:41 and 2:10?

Upon my recent findings I discovered that at lifeboat number 10, which was loaded and lowered by chief officer Wilde and first officer Murdoch (it being the only lifeboat first officer Murdoch lowered on the port side). During the loading process Second class passenger Nora Agnes Keane (1866-1944), who is believed to have been in lifeboat number 10, described the following during an interview with The Patriot on either the 20th and 23th of April:
"First an officer and two men were put in it. The officer was then ordered out and two men, both green hands, were put in."

If the story is true this officer she described could have been sixth officer Moody, who assisted Murdoch since the loading process of lifeboat number 9, I believe I might know a reason why he was ordered out. This is purely speculation on my part but there still were two more lifeboats on the starboard side, where first officer Murdoch was to move to after lifeboat number 10. These lifeboats being collapsible Engelhardt lifeboat C (which was stored on the deck and wasn't prepared for as yet) and collapsible Engelhardt lifeboat A (on the roof of the officers quarters). First officer Murdoch could have realized that sixth officer Moody could prepare the collapsible lifeboats for him and ordered him out to do that, to potentially save time and with that more lives. This theory only is about the officer that was ordered out however.

The following theory of sixth officer Moody staying with the Titanic has been proposed by Inger Sheil and Kerri Sundberg back in 1999.
"Moody's reasons for not leaving Titanic when he had the opportunity to do so can only be a matter of conjecture. When Lowe told him to take command of No. 16 there were still lifeboats to be launched – possibly he had every intention to "get in another boat". Other factors might have intervened – Wilde or Murdoch could have set him to work on the starboard boats. There is also an unknown psychological element - he might have been attempting to prove something to his fellow officers, his family, or even himself. More probably, the sense of duty both innate and instilled in him through his training might have prevented him leaving, even if he was ordered to do so by an officer more senior than Lowe; the same concept of duty and honor that would see tens of thousands of his generation slaughtered on the fields of Flanders a few short years into the future. Quite simply, he might have felt that staying with the ship was the right thing to do. There was nothing passive or simply stoic about his apparent acceptance of his fate – from what we know, to the very end he was engaged in trying to find practical ways to save lives and fulfill what he perceived as his duty to crew and passengers."

I hope this might offers some insight.

Kind regards,

Thomas
Thank you for the informative response. I must admit, the description of Nora Agnes Keane observing how an officer was ordered out of a boat being possible Moody, this kind of cracked my heart and shattered it into pieces. I know this sounds exaggerated, if her account can even be trusted. But if it is indeed true, it kind of proves my gut feeling that Moody actually intended and wished to leave titanic with a boat, but was somehow hindered of doing so by sadly being at the wrong place at the wrong time. It was all in the heat of the moment, maybe Moody couldn't even reflect or realize his fate with all the chaos that slowly unfolded after 1:30 am. Sure he helped evacuate more people, and from what we see he did not hesitate one second to follow the orders given by his seniors. But if it's really true that Murdoch or possibly Wilde ordered Moody to prepare boat C and A, I once again wonder, why that couldn't have been done by other crew members who were around. I once again need to clarify that I don't wish it was another person to switch places with him, But if Moody was already sitting in a boat ready for being lowered, why bother to order him out, why not let someone else do that task with the remaining boats...or was this a task only officers are capable of doing?

Having said that, I honestly secretly wish that theory wasn't true, it would make his death even more tragic, but Inger's paragraph at the end once again comforts me. Moody was truly brave, strong and selfless to continue his duty until the very end.
 
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