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Message: [QUOTE="Jim Currie, post: 109359, member: 144215"] Bill: Titanic had a 'counter stern' i.e. it had an enormous overhang as Sam says. So even when light ship you would not see the rudder. You might just see the outer tips of the wing props. As for lights. The lights that would have been turned down would be the lights in public rooms etc. However the outside deck lights and allyway lights would most certainly have been left on. These alone will seriously effect night vision. In any case, Rowe was possibly on the poop deck having a 'quiet interlude' as they say. He walked over to the starboard side - about 8 to 10 feet from where he was and saw the ice coming down the side - very close to the ship. In his own words:"it was so close I thought it was going to strike the bridge". When asked: " only 10 or 20 feet?". He replied: "Not that far. sir". One of the main reasons for a counter stern in the old days before the advent of power (apart from aesthetics) was to protect the stern gear from damage from contact with quays and other vessels. It would have been very difficult for the ice to get in amongst the props and rudder - even if the vessel went astern onto the berg unless it was a 'growler'or smaller. Sam, Your mention of 'wake' is probably nearer the mark. However, I'm sure you'll agree; the man was probably flabergasted by this most unusual state of affairs and would not be looking at the wake. If the vessel had been turning to port he- looking astern- would have seen it curving to his right. If in the other direction; it would have been obscured by the berg from his viewpoint. Some of his evidence intrigues me though. First: why did he go to the starboard side if he did not hear the bells? The only reason I can think of was that he was aware of a sudden change in engine vibrations. If so, why pick that side? - the nearest one? It is unlikely he would have heard the actual engines from where he was. The ice passing in isolation was in itself no reason to go up onto the docking bridge and stand by the phone. If as you say, the wheel was hard over to port, it did not seem that it was having the desired effect - particularly if there was threat from an underwater spur. I take it you were involved with the Navy. If so, you'll probably remember the man overboard drills which themselves used the hard over on the casualty side principal. You'll also remember that everyone was ready - on their toes and the wheel went over double time. Even then, it depended very much on how far from forward the guy or 'dummy' fell off from. Speed was a factor as well. As you point out- a long, fine vessel moving at + 20 will usually heel over toward the turn side. Your example was a warship - different animal all together. I've seen destroyers doing exactly the same thing when executing an emergency turn. It is reported that Titanic heeled slightly to port as she went to port during contact with the ice(lookouts. I take that with the usual 'pinch' though because she could have heeled due to hitting the underwater part of the ice. [/QUOTE]

Verification: In which year did the Titanic sail?