Hello Julian.I agree with Jim's post above, in response to Mike's post 437, though neither have anything to do with the title of this thread.
The only corroborated evidence of where The Californian was prior to Titanic hitting the ice berg is the 5.35pm NYT message send by Captain Lord to Captain Japha of The Antillian also of the Leyland Line of 3 bergs seen at 6.30pm ships time on the evening of the 14th April. The original Marconigram Service Form in Evan's and Captain Lord's own hand survives (somewhere) and has been photographed and is in Booth's book.
The 42 3 as opposed to 42 5 latitude is only a matter of some 2 miles, and bearing in mind Captain Lord was basing all this on noon sightings on the 14th is not particularly significant in itself. The ships log and hydrographic report gave 42 5, but The Antillian message on the evening of 14th, and a message from The Californian to the Olympic (wireless operator Ernest Moore via his USA Inquiry testimony) give 42 3.
As Sam has pointed out many times, there are lots of reasons for accepting the 42 3 latitude, but the 2 mile difference does not solve the puzzle.
I have been quite keen on working backwards from when The Californian got alongside Carpathia, and I have been equally struck by the Louis Ogden pics of The Californian alongside and how far away The Californian was in the well known pic of his that forms the header to this thread, given the limits of photography at the time, and significantly the album note being 8am, not 8.30am.
Groves and Captain Moore can see the Carpathia on the other side of the ice field - why does't Captain Lord see the Carpathia earlier across the ice field, and Captain Rostron not see The Californian earlier across the ice field ?
You wrote: "The only corroborated evidence of where The Californian was prior to Titanic hitting the ice berg is the 5.35pm NYT message send by Captain Lord to Captain Japha of The Antillian.
No it is not, because that evidence gives a wrong position and we have witness and written evidence of the true position. I remind you/
As you know. Stewart claimed that he calculated the true latitude at 10-30 pm GMT...7-20 pm ship time using the Pole Star. Anyone who questions the accuracy of that statement or the result of the Pole Star calculation is delusional or sadly lacking in practical knowledge, given the then prevailing conditions of flat calm and a clear horizon combined with Stewart's skill as a Navigator.
When Stewart had obtained a true latitude, he would have done exactly as was done pre -Noon...he would have combined the results of his 7-20 pm Pole Star latitude with that of an accurate longitude obtained in the late afternoon before the sun was too low. The result was a fixed position for 7-20 pm. This, he would record in the Scrap Logbook. Captain Lord would have used that same 7-20 pm position to obtain his 10-21pm DR stopped position.
Those who pounce on the 2-minute /2mile difference in latitude between Log Book entry and wireless warning miss an essential bit of evidence.
The notation for the 7-20 pm ship's position appearing in the Official Logbook was copied directly from the Scrap Logbook by Stewart.
The Official Ice reports were compiled from Official Logbook extracts. Such reports only used DR positions if fixes were not available. The practice allowed the Hydrographers to more accurately plot ice movements.
The ice warning to the Antillian was based on a DR position, before an accurate latitude was obtained.
However, as I have demonstrated to you, Sam and others: if we accept the evidence of Stone and Gibson regarding the sighting of Carpathia's rockets. then we know that at 3-30 pm., Californian was between 22.6 and 25.3 miles from Boxhall in boat 2. Can it be a pure coincidence the stopped position for Californian given by Captain Lord is exactly 22.7 miles north ( and 12.7 minutes of longitude west of) the wreck site? I think not!
As for your question regarding Californian's proximity to Carpathia? Consider the evidence from 4 witnesses...1 on Mount Temple...1 on Carpathia and 2 on Californian.
1. As far as I can determine, no more than 4 minutes separated the clocks on all three vessels.
2. At 8 am Carpathia was stopped about 3.5 miles east of the ice barrier. Her captain saw Californian about 6 miles away and approaching Carpathia from the WSW.
One and two allow us to plot the relative positions of the two ships at 8 am
3. Captain Lord said his ship was making about 12,5 knots and that he followed a SSE course down the west side of the ice.
4. Californian's 3rd officer said Carpathia was abeam to port at about 7-45 am.
Three and four allow us to plot the relative positions of the two vessls at about 7-45 am.
5. The Captain of the Mount Temple said that Californian passed a mile off heading south at about 7-10 am
6. Californian's 3rd Officer said he saw Mount Temple on the Starboard Bow when he arrived on the bridge.
5 and 6 allow us to plot the course of the Californian from just before 7 am.
Here's what it looks like to scale: