Jim, if you were not so eager to point out my "mistakes" you might have had more time to read and understand English
I mean English your native language. Sadly it is not my native language. I really like your English, the way you use idioms and so on, but please do take more time to read it. Lord testified:
“When I came off the bridge, at half past 10, I pointed out to the officer that I thought I saw a light coming along”.
So, at half past 10 Groves was at the Bridge, and Lord and Stewart were off the Bridge.
Chan e Beurla mo chànan dùthchasach, tha Gàidhlig' English is not my native language, Mila.Did you understand it now, Jim? Do you still believe I should take a crash course on how a ship is navigated and managed? And please do tell me who continues to make a fool of yourself in public, Jim?
Not so fast, Jim.You may humbly appologise.
I guess its your style Mila. Yes, you attacked those who you disagree with. In fact, you downright insulted Cam. Just because he is new to all of this, and quite enthusiastic at it, he doesn't deserve the verbal abuse you directed toward him.So, Sam, your like of Cam’s post means that you too are feeling “attacked“ and you also are not going to post here? Just asking.
We are not talking about stopped steamer. We are talking about the light Lord saw before 11.What Lord meant "from the deck" is that he was outside on deck, not in the chart room or his cabin. Californian, like all vessels, had several decks. The OOW at the time, Groves, was on the upper bridge, or so called flying bridge. When Stone arrived to take over from Groves, Lord stopped him before he went up to replace Groves, It was near the wheelhouse door which was the deck below the upper bridge. I believe it was called the Promenade deck on Californian. It was one deck above the Shelter deck. It was there that Lord pointed out the stopped steamer to Stone and the ice that caused them to stop for night.
Mila, we’ve been warned.
Exactly, Keith.To give an idea of how far apart Titanic was from the Californian , if you were on the bridge of the Titanic the horizon would be about10 miles and about 7 miles from the bridge of the Californian and if you were 6 foot tall and standing up in a lifeboat the horizon would be about 2 and 3/4 miles away , so this gives an idea of who seen who from each of the ships when the first distress rockets were sent up.
I haven't kept up on acronyms. What does that mean?Do you consider the above post to be a PA?
I am not sure, Cam, if you are too young to post in the forums or maybe there is something else.
Buy, guys, enjoy the discussions that never end with an “enthusiastic” Cam and others.
I know what I wanted to know.
The distance between the Titanic and the Californian was around 10 miles.
It was confirmed by a few accounts: Lord, Stewart, Groves and Bisset.
In your book, Sam, you have got it all wrong in regards to the distance. I thought about writing a book at my own, but realized there is no use.
Hi Jim!Let's put this "baby" to bed once and for all and quit the speculation and guess work - go with the evidence.
I would like to challenge every inactive and active member who considers that Californian and Titanic were in sight of each other while the latter was sinking. If I do not get a constructive rebuttal of what I am about to write from any one of them, then I assume that they admit that the Californian was at a greater distance from the sinking Titanic than that which they all subscribe to.
First let's establish common ground.
I'm sure we all agree that if Titanic's side lights were visible from the upper bridge of the Californian then the former could not have been more than 19 miles away. from the latter at the moment Titanic stopped. So that establishes a maximum separation distance. I use a 55' height of eye for Californian and 75 feet for Titanic's boat deck. I stress this is purely theoretical distance.
I assume, that everyone accepts the evidence of Carpathia's captain that Californian was about 6 miles away from Carpathia at 8 am. and that she was nearby at 8-30 am. If so, that takes care of part of the Californian's running time at Full Speed.
Captain Lord said he cleared the western side of the ice barrier at 6-30 am. on the morning of April 15. This dove-tails with the evidence from his 3rd Officer Groves indicating that the crew were called to "stations" shortly after that - at about 6-40 am. I point out here, that there would have been no point in doing so earlier than that, since at that time Lord would reckon that he has still another hour and ten minutes to steam before getting to the CQD position. i.e. ETA CQD = 7-40 am.
Captain Lord also claimed a full enhanced speed of 13 knots although his Chief Engineer, who was probably using rpm ,claimed 13.5 knots.
If Lord's declared time of commencing full speed is accepted, then everyone must also accept that Californian was running at full speed for 1 hour 30 minutes while on the western side of the ice barrier.
During the period 6-30 am to 8 am she was constantly heading in a southerly direction...SSW then S then SSE. Consequently Californian made good at least a southward distance of about 20 miles in that time.
In addition, at 6-30 am she must have been 18 miles from Carpathia. If so, then Since she followed a S.S.W.ly course across the ice barrier when she started to cross at 6 am, she was at least 3 miles farther to the north, at that time which means she was at least 21 miles from Titanic when she hit the berg.
The bearing evidence of the nearby vessel given by her officers.. suggest that Californian was NW of the sinking Titanic while the stopped DR position at 10-21 pm the previous night places her to the NNW of the stricken vessel.
It has been claimed that Californian was stopped about 14 miles from Titanic when the latter stopped. However, if that had been the case, Californian would have been WSW of Carpathia at or very near to 7-23 am that morning... not 8 pm as observed by Captain Rostron.
Basically: if the consensus is that Californian steamed at full speed for 2 hours when west of the ice barrier, then, unless she steamed in circles, she was where her captain said she was at 6 am that morning and also where he said she was half an hour later at 6-30 am when she emerged from the west side of the ice barrier.
In support of the foregoing and as a means of illustration, I offer the following sketch:
View attachment 75184
The idea that Californian was less than the distance claimed by Captain Lord cannot be reconciled with the evidence of her sighting given by Captain Rostron of the Carpathia.
In addition, as can be seen from the scale plot of the area, the idea that Californian was less than 10 miles from the sinking Titanic is totally absurd. How any qualified professional ever agreed with such an idea is beyond belief, except, of course, he had a rubber stamp which he used in a liberal manner.
However, as I said at the beginning - if any of you out there care to constructively contradict - be my guest. However, please do not speculate, guess, "pick nits" or take one bit in isolation. everything is connected.
Oh! and forget about offering "Close (or strange) encounters of any kind", smoke, mirrors, mirages, and not forgetting swirling currents to make your heads spin.
Have fun.. I am.
I don't want to prove I'm correct, Julian, I want a demonstration from those who are pushing alternative opinions and poison to prove me wrong and prove the accusations against the accused. You are a lawyer, I'm sure you know exactly what I mean.Hi Jim,
A failure to reply is not an acceptance that you are correct.
Anyway, I'm replying, with a vote against.
I dislike these sort of forum polls. They mean nothing.
Stay well Jim. I wish all forum members the very best during these very difficult times.
Nope! They saw 7 rockets. If the first "Flash" had been a rocket, then Stone would have seen the reason for the flash... it would have been followed by a shower of slowly descending stars.thanks for the correction!
And, they saw 8 rockets. Titanic fired 8 rockets