That is exactly my point, Sam. All of the evidence should be considered, bit-by-bit, not a single item should be ignored or rejected out of hand. Where possible it should be corroborated by hard fact. There should be not be any unqualified assumptions but there is plenty of room for logic.I'll let others be the judge of what is fact Vs. what is speculation. We all have the same copies of the transcripts.
That will not do Sam. If you wish to go down the road to a satisfactory conclusion to this debate, you must resist the temptation to treat the evidence like a biased journalist or rather; the Editor of a biased newspaper.Yes it is because many assumptions are being made. Case in point:
Lowe actually said that he got that speed by: "I used the speed for the position at 8 o'clock, and got it by dividing the distance from noon to the corner by the time that had elapsed from noon until the time we were at the corner." It was also Lowe who worked the course and distance from noon to the corner while he was on duty from noon till 4pm, "I worked the course from noon until what we call the 'corner'; that is, 42 north, 47 west. I really forget the course now. It is 60º 33 1/2' west - that is as near as I can remember - and 162 [126?] miles to the corner." When he spoke of the use of the log it was in response to being asked how he knew for certain that he used the right speed in getting his 8pm DR. Lowe's response was: "In what way, sir? We have the log -" He was then asked by Sen. Smith, "And inasmuch as you did not take the revolutions, I wondered whether you were strictly accurate when you defined the ship's position at 8 o'clock." Lowe then went on to talk about the unfinished slip table they were working on, and mentioned that if they had increased or decreased the speed while he was off duty (between 4 and 6pm) then he would have been informed of it.
With respect to the log and revolutions, Lowe also pointed out, "We ring him up, and we see how she is doing with the revolutions, whether she is going faster or going slower; and you will find a corresponding difference in the log." If the log registered 126 miles in 6 hours, then it would register an advance of 42 miles in two hours with the same number of revolutions. Yet we were told that the log advanced about 45 miles in two hours. That's an increase of 3 miles in two hours, or just over 7%. For that to happen, the revolutions would have to have increased from 75rpm to about 80rpm, which did not happen. The other data point in log miles came from Rowe who took the reading when the struck and said it was 260 miles. If the time was 11h and 40m, then that is an average advance of 44.6 miles every two hours, which is certainly in keeping with 75rpm. (If the actual advance between 8 and 10pm was 45.0 miles, then that would imply the revolutions over that two hour period had increased by 0.7 rpm from the 75rpm average. But my guess was that 45 miles was a rounded number to begin with.)
It would have to be a relatively strong head wind to loose a full knot in speed. Besides, the moderate wind that afternoon came over the ship's starboard quarter.
Hello Marcus,Hello Sam,
about your post The patent log measures distance travelled through the water, not distance made good...
What conclusions can we take from this? Either the revolutions where changed, or the log was slow.
With the turning point Jim has proposed the mileage travelled over ground from noon to collision was 260 miles.
This is what the log indicated. Because of the north atlantic current, 0.4 to 0.8 knots, for 9 hours, it should have indicated
4 ... 7 miles more.
How precise can a log exspected to be? It's just a screw in the water, not a gear wheel on a tooth bar.
If it lost 7 miles of 260, that's an error of 3 percent, the best what one can exspect.
45 miles from 8 to 10. Are we sure that the log was read every two hours sharp at full hour?
May be, the one quartermaster read it 2 minutes before 8, the other 1 minute after 10, than we have 3 minutes additional
elapsed time and one mile more.
Personally I would judge the revolutions were not changed, as I can not immagine any reason for that.
The ship slowed down because of gulfstream between noon and somewhat 8 or 9 p.m.
Beeing under the influence of Labrador current, which was heading to south, the ship could speed up again.
Interesting point. That means deviating from normal routine 8 bells were struck at 12:00 unaltered time.As we learned from Bosun's mate Haines, the clock had not been put back yet when the ship struck at 11:40. Just looking at the clock it appeared they were due on watch in about 15 minutes time soon after the accident happened. Nobody appears to have asked if the clock had been put back or not. They went up the nest just as the clock was approaching 12:00. Once up there, 8 bells were struck as usual, and they stayed up there for about 20 minutes before attempting to call down to the bridge upon seeing people running about with belts on.
And here is where things differ, in the assumptions made and the logic used to support those assumptions.There should be not be any unqualified assumptions but there is plenty of room for logic
The sources of the information in your list from 1 to 5 is entirely based on what survivors However, it is not complete. My list looks like the following. I have included sources.And here is where things differ, in the assumptions made and the logic used to support those assumptions.
The facts are simple enough:
We all seem to agree,
1. The vessel travelled 1549 miles by noon on the 14th since departing Queenstown.
2. The ship ran 260 miles by log from noon to the time of collision.
3. The ship ran about 45 miles between 8 and 10pm earlier that night.
4. The ship sank at 41° 43.5'N,49° 56.8'W.
5. The CQD positions of Boxhall and Capt. Smith were both too far west of the wreck site, the first about 13 miles and the second about 20 miles.
All else is the application of assumption and logic based on what survivors reported.
As Markus pointed out, the reason Boxhall was in the wheel house when the call from Rowe came in was that he just fired off a distress rocket. Rowe was also asked about the location of these devices:If Rowe had adjusted time and received the detonator order at 12-25 am, then the first rocket could not have been fired before he and his mate reached the bridge with the detonators. This must also have been near to the time when Boxhall had been to the Wireless Room with the revised distress position. Why else would he have been in the wheelhouse to answer the phone when everyone else was out on deck, helping with the boats?