How Many Ships Could There Have Been

[Logan Geen]

I am sailing into deep waters on this (sorry pun not intended!) but I am wondering what everyone's different opnions may be on this. How many ships could there have been in the immediate region around the Titanic? I am not saying between the Titanic and the Californian, as it seems to me there wasn't, but there may well have been some other ships within 5-30 miles of the area. Supposedly a schooner was seen, and a freighter was passed at some point (the Almerian I believe) by the Californian. How many vessels do you think could have been in the neighborhood occupied by the Titanic and the Californian? I think that there probably were others, butnot really awfully close.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Deep waters and shark infested as well, as many a researcher delving into this issue has learned the hard way.

I believe it was the Mount Temple that reported encountering a schooner sailing out of the icefield, but I can't really say whether it's really a signifigent issue. (They seem to have missed getting the name of this vessel.) How close they were when the Titanic was going down, I can't say. Maybe they watched the whole thing, and maybe the Mount Temple caught them coming out after an unsuccessful attempt to get in from the west.

If you have a copy of the U.S. Senate Inquiry, you'll find three charts inside which gives the approximate locations of the ships known to be in the general area, the closest of which was the Californian.

Cordially,

 

[Parks Stephenson]

Logan,

The answer is 17. Unfortunately, I don't have documentation, eyewitness accounts or forensic evidence or logic to support that number. I can say that based on the available evidence, though, that none of those 17 came to Titanic's aid.

A tired and tipsy Parks

 

[Dave Moran]

The following ships may, or may not, have been in the proximity of the Titanic when she went down

(1) The Bismarck

(2) USS Nimitz - having fallen though a rip in space that moved her back several years in time, possibly just in time to avert a horrible disaster

(3) The Starship Enterprise - likewise, with a slightly bigger rip

(4) The Good Ship Lollipop

(5) The Bat-boat

(6) Three Men In A Boat

(7) Leif Errikkson still trying to find Newfoundland and prove he got there before Columbus

(8) Leif Errikkson still trying to find a way out of ' High Chapparal ' reruns

(9) A yellow submarine

(10) The Flying Dutchman

(11) HMS Pinafore

(12) The Mary Celeste

(13) Karl Stomberg and his huge submarine swallowing tanker which was out that night illegally trawling for whales

(14) The Pequod

(15) Noah's ark

(16) Kaiser Wilhelm II, Tsar Nicholas II, Lilli Langtry and Pope Gregory the Ninth aboard his holiness' yacht ' The Saucy Sue '

(17) The Ancient Mariner

 

[Logan Geen]

That's hilarious Dave! On a more serious note I've always thought that the presence or absence of other ships in the neighborhood was entirely irrelevant. Most importantly we KNOW that the Californian was there, the others are more speculation-based (besides since the discussion is focused on the Californian why mention other ships anyway?).

 

[Beth Barber]

Hey Dave - you forgot the "SS Minnow" - lol sorry but I had to chirp in on that one! - Beth

 

[Colleen Collier]

Don't give the Enquirer any more news story ideas! Next they will say that Emelia Airhardt found several survivors on Gilligans Island and it was the real idea of the tv series.

Colleen

 

[Dave Gittins]

The good ship Venus was also on the scene, but her crew was too busy with non-nautical activities to assist.

 

[John M. Feeney]

Did anybody mention "The Love Boat"?

How about Captain Nemo in the "Nautilus"?
(Gosh, maybe Titanic was really rammed!)

"Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale ..."

 

[Don Tweed]

You forgot Rudolph and Yukon Cornelius!
Remember, they were on an ice flow and Rudolphs' nose would look like a port running light!!!
-Don

 

[Richard K. Mason]

Okay, I would like for one of you "experts" to try to set the record straight, PLEASE!

After reading all that I can for over 38+ years, I am still confused as to what ships were REALLY within, let's say 50 miles or less of the disaster site that night. It seems that some writers have either relied on guess-work, wishful thinking, or hear-say when trying to determine the actual names of these vessels and the validity of their presence.

I thought the Hydrographic report prepared during the Senate investigations was the absolute authority for any ship identification questions, but I'm always reading somewhere about another boat turning up here-or-there that was never mentioned. What's the truth? Who, What and Where were these ships that night?

Many thanks,
Richard

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Richard, ships that were known to be within 50 miles of the disaster that night would be the Californian and the Carpathia. Californian to the northwest and the Carpathia to the southeast.

While the hydrographic report is pretty good, it's only as useful as the information they had, and a lot of mistakes were made that night. The Carpathia's distance given as 58 miles doesn't hold up well on close inspection if only because there is no way the ship could have acheived the over 17 knots claimed. If you want a really good overview of the navigation problems and the mistakes that can be demonstrated to be made, I can think of no better site to go to then All at Sea with Dave Gittins

The subject headings you want to check out in particular are Titanic Navigation, Carpathia. Legends and Reality and Where was Californian?

I'd suggest you read through the whole site. You'd be hard pressed to find any site out there which best explains the navigation problems.

On the matter of hypothetical mystery ships, well, your guess is as good as mine. Both sides have opinions on this, and nobody agrees.

 

[Richard K. Mason]

Michael,

Wow! Thanks for directing me to Dave's site! This guy has really researched the issues, hasn't he? Like reading stories from people who "claim" they saw a second gunman on the Grassy Knoll on Nov. 22, 1963, this mystery ship stuff is just that. A mystery. I thank you and Dave for putting this puppy to bed. I guess what impresses me most is when I think back to the Time Tunnel episode where Tony Newman tries to warn Capt. Smith to go further south, he should have said A LOT further south! Good Lord! How could ANY captain, no matter how experienced, have expected to sail through an ice field THAT LONG and THAT WIDE! It boggels the mind!

Thanks again,
Richard

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Well, keep in mind that in regards ice, all the Titanic had were a few reports. While they may have given some indication of the extent of the icefield, they couldn't provide information on how dense it was. The maps of the icefield were not put together until after the fact. Way too late to do anybody a lick of good. Liners had been beating the odds for a long time and they had no reason to think they couldn't do it again. Unfortunately for the Titanic, their gamble was a losing one.

Regarding the "mystery ship" again I have to stress that a third party may or may not have been there. As the "anti-Lord" faction correctly points out, it's mere presence would not...in and of itself...add to or take away from any mistakes made by Lord & Company on the Californian or their accountability for same. However, as the pro-Lord faction would just as quickly point out, what this hypothetical interloper was doing just might.

Frankly, I don't know the answer to that one. The arguements and counter-arguements abound and none of them ever quite put the thing to rest.

 

[Dave Gittins]

Captain Smith was not as foolish as he's often made out to be. The evidence shows that he definitely had two relevant ice warnings in his hands. One was from Caronia and gave the ice situation as of April 12th. Wherever the ice was on April 12th, it wasn't there on April 14th, so it wasn't a lot of help, just a general warning. The other warning was from Baltic and was up to date. Harold Bride told a vague tale of a third warning from Californian. This mentioned only 3 bergs, a bit north of Smith's planned track. Bride had no idea who he gave the message to.

As I've shown on my site, Smith could have chosen to act on the Baltic warning and gone well south, at the cost of a few miles extra and half an hour or so. He chose instead to rely on the Mark 1 Eyeball. His officers did the routine things that you do at night, such as making sure there is no light forward of the lookouts and generally keeping the lookouts alert. It wasn't enough.