How much of a difference would it have made?

[schara01]

I was reading some general facts about the size of the SS Californian today and it got me thinking. Hypothetically speaking, let’s say the Californian did respond to the Titanic’s distress signals in a timely manner. How much of a difference would it have made? It only had a capacity of 102 people total, and there were over 1500 people who perished that night. I mean I guess they could haul some of the people in lifeboats on board but then what? They wouldn’t have had enough space for everyone safely, at least from what I can tell. What are your thoughts?

 

[Michael H. Standart]

I was reading some general facts about the size of the SS Californian today and it got me thinking. Hypothetically speaking, let’s say the Californian did respond to the Titanic’s distress signals in a timely manner. How much of a difference would it have made? It only had a capacity of 102 people total, and there were over 1500 people who perished that night. I mean I guess they could haul some of the people in lifeboats on board but then what? They wouldn’t have had enough space for everyone safely, at least from what I can tell. What are your thoughts?

Not as much as you might think. If I had to do it all over again, there are some mathamatical errors I would correct, and Perkis would be deleted as contrary to his claims, he did not go back in his boat to try and rescue anybody.

Getting past that, most of this I'll stand by. Even if they had figured it out from the first, the Californian would not have made it in time to successfully evacuate the people trapped on the Titanic.

The Californian Incident, A Reality Check

A critical analysis of the SS Californian’s role in Titanic’s sinking, reassessing the potential and limits of its rescue capability.

www.encyclopedia-titanica.org

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Even if they had figured it out from the first, the Californian would not have made it in time to successfully evacuate the people trapped on the Titanic.

Agreed. Even in the 'best case scenario' Captain Lord and his men might have pulled around 50 half-frozen people out of the water and some of those would have likely died on board the Californian. But the issue forever that went against him will be that he did not even try.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

But the issue forever that went against him will be that he did not even try.

Yep. That's the core problem. Myself, I think the partisans in the debate are massively overthinking things. I don't think there was any malice involved. I think they saw something (They all admitted that) misread everything and had their "Oh bloody HELL" moment in the morning when Evans turned on the wireless and got the news. Everything that followed was spin control.

But that's just my opinion. I can't back that up as a fact.

 

[schara01]

Not as much as you might think. If I had to do it all over again, there are some mathamatical errors I would correct, and Perkis would be deleted as contrary to his claims, he did not go back in his boat to try and rescue anybody.

Getting past that, most of this I'll stand by. Even if they had figured it out from the first, the Californian would not have made it in time to successfully evacuate the people trapped on the Titanic.

The Californian Incident, A Reality Check

A critical analysis of the SS Californian’s role in Titanic’s sinking, reassessing the potential and limits of its rescue capability.

www.encyclopedia-titanica.org

Thanks Michael, what an informative paper! This really helped me see it from an analytical perspective.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

I don't think there was any malice involved. I think they saw something (They all admitted that) misread everything and had their "Oh bloody HELL" moment in the morning when Evans turned on the wireless and got the news.

I agree that there was massive misjudgement of the situation but definitely no malice involved. Why would there have been? Captain Lord was as much a professional Captain as any other that night.

For that reason and Lord's known personality, I have always believed that the actual picture of the saga of the Titanic & the Californian still has many loose ends. I do not believe that Stone, Gibson etc were as clear or as emphatic as they appeared to suggest in their testimonies at the British Inquiry about imparting their concerns about the other ship to the Captain. Neither was called in at the American Inquiry but had heard what their Captain and Ernest Gill had to say and so time to talk to each other and build a plausible sounding story.

Captain Lord above all was a proud man and in the morning afterthe Titanic sank, would have realized the massive error that he and his crew had made. There was no love lost between him and his officers and so Lord probably worked out in what direction the finger mght point when the investigation was completed. He would not have wanted the whole thing to appear as a mud-slinging match between his own crew and himself and so to some extent allowed himself to be blamed for more than his share for the fiasco. I am not sayig that he was a complete scapegoat because he had the power to come out and exert his authority (starting by waking Evans up and getting him to check) at any time but did not. He undoubtedly felt guilt about that and to some extent it reflected in his somewhat defensive attitude at the Inquiries.

 

[Mike Spooner]

I my opinion the most disgraceful behaver has to come from Lord Mersey and Sir Rufus Issacs on how they stitch up captain Lord as the scapegoat for so many lives loss on Titanic. Made a complete mockery of fair justices in the British legal system by failing for captain Lord not to heard is side of the story. How on earth was he to save 1496 lives and the rest too totalling over 2200 lives. Captain Lord was never given a chance to have rehearing of the outrageous Lord Mersey verdict. In my opinion quite frankly the verdict just for captain Lord stinks of a rig inquiry to save face for the Government department the Board of Trade out of date safety regulations, which they were pick up on some. But any further deeper investigations would of only just made it look worse for the Government.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Stone and Gibson definately threw Captain Lord under the bus. When Tracy Smith and I were doing our part of the research, it wasn't long before we started calling them The Two Stooges. In fairness, you don't expect the apprentice to be all that wise, but Stone was not exactly a shining example of intellectual legerdemain either.

The U.S. Senate investigation was breathtakingly sloppy and inept. I expected that at the very least, everybody on the Californian who even might have seen something would have been questioned. That's how navies and maritime investigating boards do it. Who was questioned?

Captain Lord...the suspect whom nobody bothered telling he was a suspect.
Ernest Gill...the paid snitch whom even Lords harshest critics acknowledge, can't be trusted.
Cyril Evans...pretty much Polly the Parrot! All he did was pass on what he was told. He didn't see diddly squat!

NOBODY else on that ship was questioned.

By the time Lord got to the UK and Lord Mersey's happy band, he was walking into an ambush.

 

[Titanicmaster]

Stone and Gibson definately threw Captain Lord under the bus. When Tracy Smith and I were doing our part of the research, it wasn't long before we started calling them The Two Stooges. In fairness, you don't expect the apprentice to be all that wise, but Stone was not exactly a shining example of intellectual legerdemain either.

The U.S. Senate investigation was breathtakingly sloppy and inept. I expected that at the very least, everybody on the Californian who even might have seen something would have been questioned. That's how navies and maritime investigating boards do it. Who was questioned?

Captain Lord...the suspect whom nobody bothered telling he was a suspect.
Ernest Gill...the paid snitch whom even Lords harshest critics acknowledge, can't be trusted.
Cyril Evans...pretty much Polly the Parrot! All he did was pass on what he was told. He didn't see diddly squat!

NOBODY else on that ship was questioned.

By the time Lord got to the UK and Lord Mersey's happy band, he was walking into an ambush.

 

[Mike Spooner]

I hadn't relies before that only three from Californian ship gave evident and all the seventh day to. Yet there was more men could of given evident but never ask.

 

[Yuriko Cheng]

Couldn't it have been possible for the Californian to hold the Titanic's passengers and crew just long enough for other rescue ships to arrive, and then redistribute them onto these new ships?

 

[Pegglesworth]

We can never know as the Californian didn't respond. Would ice have obstructed? Could they have held the survivors temporarily? what if.........

 

[Arun Vajpey]

Couldn't it have been possible for the Californian to hold the Titanic's passengers and crew just long enough for other rescue ships to arrive, and then redistribute them onto these new ships?

In order to be able to do that, around 1500 people should have first been taken on board the Californian. How do you expect that could have been accomplished?

The Californian was stopped for the night between 11 and 14 miles from the Titanic and at best could do 12 knots. So, let us try to imagine the most optimistic hypothetical scenario. For this purpose, I'll keep everything as positive as possible.

By the time Captain Smith realized that the Titanic was sinking, it was around 12:05am. Let us imagine he immediately and emphatically ordered his Officers to muster passengers and crew, to prepare, swing out load and lower the lifeboats and also went to the wireless room to order the operators to start sending out distress signals immediately. Also ordered Boxhall to start firing rockets for the benefit of the other ship's lights, which they could see in the distance.

Continuing on that hypothetical positive note, assume that on board the Californian, Cyril Evans was awake and alert, heard the distress calls and alerted Captain Lord immediately; within minutes, Stone, who had come on duty at midnight, confirmed the rockets seen from the bridge. Captain Lord jumped up, issued a series of very appropriate orders to his crew, including those in the Engine room, posted doube lookouts and stood on watch on the bridge himself while his ship started to the rescue. Unless I am mistaken, even with everyone responding with maximum efficiency, it would have been at least 12:20am by the time the Californian got under way.

Given the ice around and its maximum speed, the Californian would probably have got within 200 metres of the sinking Titanic by about 1:40 am. By then the crew of the Titanic, also working with maximum efficiency and full cooperation of the passengers, had filled and lowered 15 lifeboats, with at least 50 people per boat, allowing men in if there was room. That's still only about 800 people in the lifeboats, leaving around 1400 people still on board the sinking Titanic. What next? You tell me.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Couldn't it have been possible for the Californian to hold the Titanic's passengers and crew just long enough for other rescue ships to arrive, and then redistribute them onto these new ships?

You could, but that's not the real issue. The issue is whether or not they could have made a difference in the first place IF they had recognized the problem as soon as they saw the first rocket.

I don't think that anybody here seriously challenges the notion that they shouldn't have, made the attempt.

 

[Mike Spooner]

There was a further dilemma for captain Lord to consider, if he had woken up his wireless operator Cyril Evans to contact Titanic for information of her position. Titanic had reported the wrong position West of the ice field, but Titanic is East of the ice field, So which side do I go for. Rockets or the reported Titanic position? All chance more time could of been wasted.