Michael H. Standart
Member
I think Robert A. Heinlein said it best in his classic work "Stranger in a Strange Land"
He makes a good point too. Think about it.
Humor in the movies more harm than good
- Thread starter Rachel Fellman
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- films humour titanic movies
Scott Newman
Member
I think we need to turn to Michael Scott from "The Office" (USA version) for some advice on this topic:
"Michael: AIDs is not funny. Believe me, I’ve tried.
Michael: The Lincoln assassination just recently became funny. “I need to see this play like I need a hole in the head.” And I hope to someday live in a world where a person could tell a hilarious AIDs joke. It’s one of my dreams."
"Michael: AIDs is not funny. Believe me, I’ve tried.
Michael: The Lincoln assassination just recently became funny. “I need to see this play like I need a hole in the head.” And I hope to someday live in a world where a person could tell a hilarious AIDs joke. It’s one of my dreams."
Inger Sheil
Member
Scott, did you ever see the South Park episode where AIDS was declared officially subject to humour, because 22.3 years have passed since the first formal diagnosis, and 22.3 years is the official period before a tragedy can become a joke? It's a brilliant episode.
I wouldn't want it to be thought I was opposed to humour in Titanic films. One of the funniest cartoons re the disaster I've seen came from the pen of a Titanic survivor. It's never been published, but I found it very amusing. And if you want to go all academic on the point, books such as 'Dancing on the Grave' examine the need of different cultures to 'laugh in the face of death'. I've done it myself. I once had an Afghanistani colleague ask me how I could laugh with another co-worker over the fact that I'd helped nurse my grandmother and aunt through fatal illnesses (they died within three months of each other, and I was on-call overnight during the period they were dying). The co-worker and I looked at each other, shrugged our shoulders, and said 'if we don't laugh, we'll never stop crying.'
The point raised above - and one where I think there are legitimate grounds for discussion - is the reduction of historic figures to comic caricatures. It's all well and good when you're writing Blackadder scripts, but when you're writing a supposedly historic script? The odd joke at the expense of character (e.g. Freud) is hardly a hangeable offense - odds are, they would have known them in their own time. But can we quibble with an historical figure being played entirely - from go to whoa - for laughs? Even if it distorts the historic record?
I wouldn't want it to be thought I was opposed to humour in Titanic films. One of the funniest cartoons re the disaster I've seen came from the pen of a Titanic survivor. It's never been published, but I found it very amusing. And if you want to go all academic on the point, books such as 'Dancing on the Grave' examine the need of different cultures to 'laugh in the face of death'. I've done it myself. I once had an Afghanistani colleague ask me how I could laugh with another co-worker over the fact that I'd helped nurse my grandmother and aunt through fatal illnesses (they died within three months of each other, and I was on-call overnight during the period they were dying). The co-worker and I looked at each other, shrugged our shoulders, and said 'if we don't laugh, we'll never stop crying.'
The point raised above - and one where I think there are legitimate grounds for discussion - is the reduction of historic figures to comic caricatures. It's all well and good when you're writing Blackadder scripts, but when you're writing a supposedly historic script? The odd joke at the expense of character (e.g. Freud) is hardly a hangeable offense - odds are, they would have known them in their own time. But can we quibble with an historical figure being played entirely - from go to whoa - for laughs? Even if it distorts the historic record?
Kyrila Scully
Member
"The co-worker and I looked at each other, shrugged our shoulders, and said 'if we don't laugh, we'll never stop crying.'"
That line has always stuck in my mind. When I was a small child, there was a memorable episode of Dr. Kildare where Claude Rains portrayed a grandfather whose beloved granddaughter died during a simple tonsilectomy. He had planned to bomb the hospital after hearing the doctors and nurses in the unit laughing in the halls and elevator, thinking they were making light of his granddaughter's death, until Raymond Massey's character explained to him that laughter allows them a release from the tragedies they face daily, and he said the exact same thing - If they didn't laugh, they would be constantly crying.
Both John Lennon and Paul McCartney admit to hysterical laughing at their respective mothers' funerals. Not that they were laughing that their mothers had died, but because they had to laugh or let others see their vulnerability if they cried. So I think that is the key here in this discussion. We are so overwhelmed by tragedies sometimes that we make jokes to keep from being overwhelmed by our sadness over the tragedies. Remember how soon after Challenger blew up that the jokes appeared about Christa McAuliffe's eye color...even after 9/11 there were jokes - not about the victims but about the race that the perpetrators represented. (The Star Trek joke comes to mind.)
So while some may think humor is completely out of place in a tragic situation, others require it to be able to cope with it, otherwise they'd probably go mad with grief.
Kyrila
That line has always stuck in my mind. When I was a small child, there was a memorable episode of Dr. Kildare where Claude Rains portrayed a grandfather whose beloved granddaughter died during a simple tonsilectomy. He had planned to bomb the hospital after hearing the doctors and nurses in the unit laughing in the halls and elevator, thinking they were making light of his granddaughter's death, until Raymond Massey's character explained to him that laughter allows them a release from the tragedies they face daily, and he said the exact same thing - If they didn't laugh, they would be constantly crying.
Both John Lennon and Paul McCartney admit to hysterical laughing at their respective mothers' funerals. Not that they were laughing that their mothers had died, but because they had to laugh or let others see their vulnerability if they cried. So I think that is the key here in this discussion. We are so overwhelmed by tragedies sometimes that we make jokes to keep from being overwhelmed by our sadness over the tragedies. Remember how soon after Challenger blew up that the jokes appeared about Christa McAuliffe's eye color...even after 9/11 there were jokes - not about the victims but about the race that the perpetrators represented. (The Star Trek joke comes to mind.)
So while some may think humor is completely out of place in a tragic situation, others require it to be able to cope with it, otherwise they'd probably go mad with grief.
Kyrila
Beth Collins
Member
Actually, Ismay was not a passenger; he did not pay for a ticket. He was the top of the tree at White Star ( bar J P Morgan of course). If he was compos mentis, he should not have taken the place of a passenger or crew member, I feel. He-of all people- knew there were not enough boats for the people on board. However, like Michael Davies, I don't think he was in his right mind. He acted like someone near nervous breakdown or at least a severe state of shock. I don't think he weighed the wisdom of stepping in the boat and made a calculated decision. He just did it. Sadly, noone knows how they might react in a crisis like this. However, I can see why this is a action that he probably did regret in some ways when he was back on terra firma and stabilized emotionally.
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>Actually, Ismay was not a passenger; he did not pay for a ticket.<<
Actually, he was in every legal respect. That the ticket was complimentary doesn't change that.
Whether or not he was "Just a passenger" in every respect that can be regarded is practical...well...that's debatable. While I don't think he was out and about micromanaging things, he was hardly a disinterested observer, and it wasn't lost on anyone that passenger or not, as the director, he was a VIP that you didn't want to cross up.
>>If he was compos mentis, he should not have taken the place of a passenger or crew member, I feel.<<
I don't see why. Such a conclusion is a highly subjective moral judgement. I can't really make a convincing case for this being a hard fact.
>>He-of all people- knew there were not enough boats for the people on board.<<
I don't think that was much of a secret. Curiously enough, the Titanic was hardly unique in this respect. Very few vessels carried boats for all in that day and age, and it comes as quite a shock to people to find out that with a lot of passenger vessels, that's still the case.
Ironically, the one ship in the area that had boats for everybody aboard was the Californian.
Actually, he was in every legal respect. That the ticket was complimentary doesn't change that.
Whether or not he was "Just a passenger" in every respect that can be regarded is practical...well...that's debatable. While I don't think he was out and about micromanaging things, he was hardly a disinterested observer, and it wasn't lost on anyone that passenger or not, as the director, he was a VIP that you didn't want to cross up.
>>If he was compos mentis, he should not have taken the place of a passenger or crew member, I feel.<<
I don't see why. Such a conclusion is a highly subjective moral judgement. I can't really make a convincing case for this being a hard fact.
>>He-of all people- knew there were not enough boats for the people on board.<<
I don't think that was much of a secret. Curiously enough, the Titanic was hardly unique in this respect. Very few vessels carried boats for all in that day and age, and it comes as quite a shock to people to find out that with a lot of passenger vessels, that's still the case.
Ironically, the one ship in the area that had boats for everybody aboard was the Californian.
Roy Kristiansen
Member
Just try to imagine how the "Titanic Story" would have emerged if Ismay hadn't survived to direct WSL management's spin. Someone had to be around to protect the old firm's reputation.
Evgueni Mlodik
Member
Interestingly, Cameron states on the DVD commentary that the Freud line was penned by an uncredited co-writer.
