Hypothermia Probably not cause of most deaths

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Jim Currie

"it was still a day and age with some very different attitudes".

I could not agree more Michael and suggest that you have emphasised one of the principal impediments to successful historical research. By this, I of course mean an understanding of the Victorian mind-set.


Agreed or any mind-set. Era, 100, 200, 50, 25 years ago, there is more change in traditions and mind-set. Not to mention the changes from country to country that still exist. As an American this year we will either have an african-american or a women in the whitehouse; a good thing but a long time in coming. Why; it's all about understanding age and attitudes. A true historian must tackle not only a subject, but a host of other factors to paint the best picture of another time for modern eyes; and it's not an easy job.
The subject of small arms on the Titanic has been discussed on several occasions, but in view of some of the questions that have been raised in this thread regarding the ship’s stock of “Webleys” (which were presumably kept under lock and key), would it be worth asking what type of Webleys would have been involved? The earlier talk about “big Webley handguns” suggests military-issue 0.45 Webleys, but there were surely other types of Webley revolver in common use in 1912. What about the “RIC” or “Police” Webleys, which were smaller and simpler, and perhaps better-suited for use on an ocean liner? Does anyone know which model was used on White Star vessels?
Cut & pasted from one of my postings in another thread: The model supplied to White Star over the period 1899-1913 was the Mark IV 450/455. All those I've seen have the short barrel and nickel-plate options, with 'White Star Line' engraved on the inner butt strap.
Thank you Bob,

I knew I had already read something to that effect - it appears that they did indeed use "big Webley handguns" instead of the smaller RIC or civilian types.

Well, here is a World War I Webley revolver. I think this is actually a Mk VI, although it is very similar to the slightly earlier Mk IV version. It is perhaps surprising that the White Star Line officers should have used such a fearsome weapon, although the idea of carrying military hardware may have been in keeping with the image which the company wished to project - most of the officers being naval reservists. I assume they would also have used naval-style holsters and lanyards?
I think not, Stanley. Lightoller mentioned keeping his pistol in his coat pocket, and while most Webleys had an eyelet on the butt for a lanyard the White Star pistols which I've seen did not.
>>It is perhaps surprising that the White Star Line officers should have used such a fearsome weapon,<<

Doesn't surprise me. Think about it a bit. If a ship get's in some seriously deep doodoo, they don't have the option of dialing 9-11 and have the police show up minutes later. Out on the ocean, no matter how good your communications are, you are on your own, and the Captain has only a very few people he can really rely on when things start to go to hell.

If you're in an emergency situation and you find you're facing a panicked mob, you had better have the biggest stick in the woodshed to back you up if you want to keep a lid on things.
That looks a lot like the gun I fired, I'll try to contact the owner get the specifics. It was of good size. Alas, do we still know what the Master at Arms where issued if anything? Plus would they have the weapons on them for a longer amount of time due to their role on the ship?
>>So a super soaker wouldn't be a good idea?<<

Not unless it was a hose which was hooked up to the firemains.

>>Alas, do we still know what the Master at Arms where issued if anything?<<

Never seen anything in evidence. It may come as a shock but the Master-At-Arms seldom carried weapons. At least not a firearm. He probably had access or could be granted access to firearms if the Captain or Chief Officer thought it appropriate but on the crack express liners, it was seldom neseccery.
Enter another Webley!! Well maybe with a little digging one (me) shall find out. Just an interest that likely could be tracked down.
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