I DIED ON THE TITANIC


Mar 28, 2002
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This is the title of a book I bought about 5 years ago in Chester. Has anyone else read it and if so, what conclusions, if any, have you drawn? For anyone who hasn't read it, the author, a medical journalist, insists under hypnotic regression that she was Lucy Latimer, a passenger who was travelling under an alias with a forbidden lover. It's a fascinating read, given the fact that she names Mary Lennon as her alias and Denis Lennon (listed as Mary's brother) as her lover. I doubt if there's anything in it but it's extremely interesting, all the same.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Considering that the real Mary Lennon was traveling with her brother this doesn't bode well for the story. Go to https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/bio/p/3rd/lennon_m.shtml and https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/bio/p/3rd/lennon_d.shtml.

On the credibility of any such claims in general vis a vis past lives retrieved through hypnosis, you may wish to review the following;

http://www.skepdic.com/hypnosis.html and
http://www.skepdic.com/pastlife.html

Beyond offering these resources, I'll have nothing to do with this subject. Sorry if that sounds curt, but we've had discussions on claims of past lives on ET recently, and they became extremely unpleasant.

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 
Mar 28, 2002
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Sorry Michael,
I feel like I've touched a raw nerve. I do agree with you that the story is a load of old tosh and I don'r believe a word of it but the subject of regression is an interesting one all the same. I'm brand new to this site and therefore wasn't aware of this subject as a previous discussion. Typical me, diving in without looking.

Cheers,
Boz
 
Jul 9, 2000
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Ack...don't be too hard on yourself. Last I looked, there were close to 50,000 messages posted on this board. There's no way you can find them all. Just checked the Marketplace folder. A member posted something on Monica O'Hara's little pastlife gem which was offered up on eBay.

Not surprisingly, somebody bought the bloody thing!

Cordially,
Michael H. Standart
 

Mike Herbold

Member
Dec 13, 1999
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Iain:
Being a person that has to have every Titanic book ever written, including fiction titles and juvenile books, and even "Titanic Conspiracy", I confess to owning this book, as well as a few others by Monica O'Hara. I enjoyed this one to a point, but can honestly say I never finished it. It's fun reading, but I found myself taking a lot of grains of salt while reading it. I ordered it directly from her, and she was good enough to autograph it for me, and mailed it with a nice note. Her "Hands Off the Titanic" is much more interesting.
 
Jun 4, 2000
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Ditto on Mike H's opening statement, code for 'yeah, I've got this one too'.

I thought I Died on the Titanic quite entertaining, with O'Hara-Keeton chasing whispy clues across the countryside as she becomes increasingly disenchanted with Lucy Latimer's personality. It's a rattling good yarn, and there's the rub: it is a yarn. Or, as O'Hara-Keeton puts it:
quote:

'Is the story fact, fiction, or some sort of esoteric mix of the two?
THAT is up to the reader to decide...'
The 'Lucy Latimer' story has since been disproved by information on the Lennons from the 1911 Irish census uncovered by Senan Molony in researching The Irish Aboard Titanic. Rather than being an eloping middle-class English girl with delusions of grandeur, 'Mary Lennon' was Mary Mullin, an eloping girl from a downwardly mobile family in County Galway.

Good stuff, eh.​
 
Mar 28, 2002
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Thank God someone else has it in their collection. I thought I was the only one and I only bought it because of it's "Titanic connection", as you say. I bought another book recently, "Wave Cry" by Alexander Fullerton, about fictional Irish passenger Eileen Maguire. Another "good yarn". Anyone read this one?
 
Jun 4, 2000
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Yep on this one too, Iain. My high expectations, based on Fullerton's maritime novels, weren't quite met but at least he took a different tack. I thought his world-weary Ismay quite believable and a refreshing portrayal, almost enough to compensate for all that wretched puddling around in London that did so little to move the plot forward. Despite my criticism, still better than so many others... What did you think of Eileen herself?
 
Mar 28, 2002
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Well, Fiona, I must admit I did get a tad confused about who was supposed to be who during her adventures in Ireland and I'm just glad she knew what was going on.

Eileen herself - now there's a question. Sometimes....but at other times....I don't know. Her reactions seemed to be up and down, sometimes I felt for her but at other times I felt like saying "For God's sake Eileen, I thought you were supposed to be canny, couldn't you see that one coming?"

What did you think of her?

I did feel empathy towards Ismay and I guess it's easy enough to criticise his actions but who can say what we would do in that situation?
 
Jun 4, 2000
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But did Eileen know what was going on? Oh dear. Apart from being overwhelmed by her grief (understandable), she seemed to be a bit of a nong and in need of a good slap at times. Seems we agree on that one.

Sadly, I didn't find her an empathetic or interesting character: and I still believe she should have been both. Oh well, to each their own.

Cheers,
F



(Message edited by sredni_vashtar on April 11, 2002)
 
Mar 28, 2002
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"A bit of a nong?" - and I was trying to be polite! But you're spot on. Still, reading it killed some time down the laundrette and it only cost a quid so I can't complain (much).

Cheers,

Boz
 
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Richard Coplen

Guest
Hey all,
I find this topic quite interesting in that I have done some research on the "Lennons". You see my mother was born and bred in the village where Denis Lennon came from - Ballymahon, Co. Longford. I spend quite alot of time there. The story goes that Denis Lennon found a job as a bar-tender in a pub in a small village called Clarinbridge in Co. Galway. The pub which also had a small shop attached belonged to the Mullin family (who quite the opposite of being downwardly mobile as Fiona said, considered themselves to be upwardly mobile!) Anyway, as the story goes young Denis fell in love with the youngest daughter, Mary Mullin. However, the family highly disapproved of the match. They considered Mary to be of a higher social rank than Denis. The young couple decided to elope to America. They made their escape with Denis saying he was going to visit his sick mother in Ballymahon, while Mary said she was going to visit her aunt. Of course the two made their way to Queenstown in Co. Cork with the intention of boarding the first available ship to the U.S. However, the Mullin family put 2 and 2 together when they found out that Mary never turned up at her aunts. Apparently Mary's eldest brother was sent in pursuit of the young couple - supposedly carrying a loaded gun! From what I can recall the "Lennons" were actually booked on another ship - the "Celtic", I think, but had to be transferred to the "Titanic" when the former ship's voyage was cancelled. The delay in their departure was somewhat unnerving for the young couple who were travelling as Denis and Mary Lennon - giving the impression that they were brother and sister or a newly-married couple. Anyway, on the morning of Thursday, April 11th, 1912 (In other words EXACTLY 90 years ago today!!!) the two boarded the tender out to the "Titanic". Not long after the tender cast off on it's way to Roches Point to meet "Titanic", the delayed train carrying Mary's brother pulled into Queenstown station. He could only watch helplessly as his sister and her lover sailed into the distance never to be seen again. Perhaps it would have been best had be caught up with the two. By the way, Senan Molony, when attempting to identify several people in a photograph of one of the tenders, suggested that a young couple sitting in the stern of the boat were in fact the "Lennons". Denis is the one with his chin on his hand and his arm resting on his knee - he looks fed-up (or worried!), Mary is on his left wearing a hat. I like to think it was them. Sadly the two perished in the disaster. I like to think they were in eachother's arms as they went down. In my opinion they were the real Jack and Rose - overcoming class divides and sacrificing all to be together, come what may. By the way, the man who chauffeured my mother and father on their wedding day (and is still the local taxi-driver despite being in his late 80's) once told me that his father was, as a boy, in the village band and football team with another boy who later died on the "Titanic". Although there were two male victims from Ballymahon - Denis would have been nearer the age of the said man's father. I believe he was the boy in question. I've also seen a group photo of the Ballymahon town band in 1905, unfortunately the men are'nt named. I could but hazzard a guess as to which one may have been Denis. It certainly was the right period for him to have been in the band. I intend to spend today - the 90th anniversary of "Titanic's" call at Queenstown (now Cobh) thnking about the many Irish victims and their many touching stories. Anyway, I hope you find this interesting.
Best wishes,
Richie.
 
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Richard Coplen

Guest
By the way, to see the photograph of the Queenstown tender "America" on the morning of Thursday, April 11th, 1912 go to: www.encyclopedia-tit anica.org/articles/t ender_molony.shtml
I must warn you though, the quality of the photograph isn't as good as the same one in Senan Molony's excellent book "The Irish Aboard the Titanic". Although you can see the person supposed to be Denis Lennon, you cannot unfortunately make out Mary. As I said before Denis is supposedly the young man in the stern with his chin on his hand and his arm on his knee. He looks deep in thought. Mary should be on his left. You can vaguely make her out between Denis and the crewman who is standing up casting off ropes or whatever. Don't confuse her with either of the two women at the rear with the big hats. Mary should be wearing a small hat with a brim. Perhaps due to the quality of the photo, Senan does'nt indicate the Lennons as he did in his book (which I highly recommend!). Also note the man called "Patrick Fox" who came from my home-town of Mullingar. He died. Eugene Daly is also positively identified - he came from Athlone - a town which isn't too far from where I live either. He survived. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the excellent article.
Regards,
Richie.
 
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Richard Coplen

Guest
I forgot to say - in the first April 11th photo, which isn't zoomed-in, you can see part of Queenstown railway station in the background. It's the long building with the raised roof. If the story is true - one can't help but think how close and yet so far Mary's brother would have been when it came to catching up with the pair, had his train arrived in time. I guess it was fate...
 
Mar 28, 2002
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So let me get this straight - Denis and Mary were definitely NOT brother and sister? Judging from your research it would most definitely suggest not. I did note the ET biographies hint at a possible elopement so I suppose the brother and sister scenario is not set in concrete. Nobody knows for sure. Good story, fantastic if it were proved to be true.

I also noticed that today, being the 11th April, the day Titanic pulled into Queenstown, that was also Thursday 11th April, like today. Small point but a thought-provoking one (to me, anyway).
 
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Richard Coplen

Guest
Iain,
I am 110% certain that Denis and Mary Lennon were not brother and sister. Senan Molony discovered this through the 1901 and 1911 Irish census. Their biographies here on E.T need to be altered. With Denis Lennon coming from Ballymahon, Co. Longford and Mary Mullin coming from Clarinbridge, Co. Galway - the two places being at least 60 miles apart - I can safely say that the two were'nt brother and sister. The fact that they booked under the same surname (although not married and giving the impression of brother and sister) and their hurried escape to the U.S, backs the account that they were in fact eloping. I fully believe that they were.
 
Mar 28, 2002
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Richard,
In that case, I think you're right that the biographies need to be altered. As they stand, there is very little information on them. Any idea what the evidence was in support of the brother/sister theory? I always thought it a little odd but if it's there in black and white you tend to accept it, even through niggling doubts.
 
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Nicholas Westmarland

Guest
I haven't read this book but my wife has,quote "jumping on the bandwagon" !!!!!!!

Nick.
 
Jun 4, 2000
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Helloo again Richie and Iain,

My apologies, I didn't mean to leave halfway through a 'conversation' and must plead the exigencies of real life. Please bear with any peculiar formatting too, as I'm now using email rather than the board and anticipate some teething problems.

Richie, I'm very interested in your research into Dennis and Mary. My 'downwardly mobile' comment regarding the Mullins was both a smart-Alec comment on the 'Lucy Latimer' character's aspirations and based on the information in Senan Molony's 'The Irish Aboard Titanic'. Naturally I bow to your research - no worries there.

Perhaps you could write up your work and get both the biogs updated properly? You're certainly in an excellent position to add significantly to the information on the real, rather than supposed, Dennis and Mary. When I discussed the 'Mary Lennon' v 'Mary Mullin' situation with Senan I was under the distinct impression that he was planning to update the ET biogs, but that was over a year ago. I reckon you should go for it and clear the matter up.

Cheers, F
 
May 1, 2004
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Pacifique du Nord
I just checked out a book by a William Barnes in which the author claims to have written from past life regression about the life and death of Thomas Andrews.

I placed the book on hold thinking it was a bona fide bio and I find that, although Andrews's birthday and mine are the same (7th February), I'm a leetle bit wary of being taken in by the 'quotes' that Barnes spews forth.

That and the pic of the author w/an exotic bird on his shoulder at the end of the book make me think this Barnes creature is a charlatan and a carpetbagger.

The title of the book is, "Thomas Andrews: Voyage Into History."

Anybody read this? I plan on perusing it because I always learn one or two new things I didn't know before. But I'll do it w/caution.
 

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