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Identifying crew in photos

Discussion in 'Survivors and their Descendants' started by Paul Burrell, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. Paul Burrell

    Paul Burrell Member

    I am new to this site, this is my first post. Have been interested (obsessed) with Titanic for years. There are some very interesting crew photos where individuals can be identified. There is a photo of surviving crew members on a bunch of steps outside a building, New York, I think. Reginald Lee is near the top on the right. Has anyone uploaded this photo and identified the crew members in it. I’d be interested to see it?
     
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  2. Hi Paul! I know which picture you are talking about. I've been working on it for a while but couldn't make myself time to post anything. I think that picture was covered in an old thread but the link is dead and anyway I found most IDs wrong. I'll be posting about it these days! ;)

    You can also find a thread of another crew picture here: Crew Picture
     
  3. I'll begin with the most easily identified crew members:

    3 - Lookout Reginald Lee
    3.jpg

    4 - AB Ernest Archer
    4.jpg

    5 - Quartermaster Arthur Bright
    5.jpg

    6 - Quartermaster George Rowe
    6.jpg

    *He's been misidentified as Edward Buley, but the QM outfit discredits this

    7 - Lookout Frederick Fleet
    7.jpg

    11 - Quartermaster Alfred Olliver
    11.jpg

    12 - Quartermaster Walter Perkis
    12.jpg

    14 - AB Frank Osman
    14.jpg

    19 - AB Joseph Scarrott
    19.jpg

    22 - Lookout George Hogg
    22.jpg
     
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  4. I made a mistake! This was the photo you were talking about
    titanic-crew-survivors-spl.jpg
     
  5. Continuing with the first pic there are three characters which are not that difficult to identify, and though maybe not 100% certain, it's rather likely it's them:

    1 - Boatswain's Mate Albert Haines
    1.jpg

    It should be noted his outfit and authoritative posture

    13 - AB Charles Pascoe
    13.jpg

    Expression, smile lines, moustache, chin shape and size, and ears size match

    15 - Quartermaster Robert Hichens

    15.jpg
    Physically looks more like Hichens rather than the remainder QM, especially when looking at the boastfully way he is sitting. He seems to wear a moustache in the photo and one should remember Hichen's illustration at the BI where he's depicted with a thin moustache.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
  6. Paul Burrell

    Paul Burrell Member

    Hi, yes, this was the photo I had in mind. Looks like a mix of deck, engineering and victualling departments. Might be Thomas Ranger two to the right of Lee. Albert Fryer in the front row four from left, perhaps?
     
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  7. I don't know about Ranger but that really looks like Albert Fryer :)
     
  8. The remainder members of the photo are more difficult to identify, in some cases because they can resemble more than one crew member and in other cases because they are just likely unknown faces.

    I’ll introduce them in increasing level of difficulty

    23 - AB Frank Evans
    23.jpg
    It’s been suggested this could be George Moore, but I think a better candidate should be Frank Evans. Both are similar but, what convinced me about Evans are his fringe and ear size.

    2 - Mater-at-Arms Joseph Bailey?
    2.jpg
    Some thought it was AB McCarthy but, while I couldn’t find any record on McCarthy’s height, we do know Bailey stood at 5' 10" and this man stands out as the crewman of the photo.
    He stands as authoritative figure although he is not wearing uniform; he is clad in a long overcoat, so he might have been off watch when the collision took place. But going to the facts that put this man as Bailey are his facial features and expression, which along with his height match perfectly.


    17 - Lookout Archie Jewell?
    17.jpg
    Tagged as lookout Alfred Evans by some, I think there’s evidence to prove it could be Archie Jewell as well, and maybe even most likely him. In another picture taken at the Seamen’s Church Institute, you can see a young man which I take to be Jewell sitting in the crowd. Both of them have a scarf and their wavy hair is disheveled the same way, and shared the same look of consternation.

    8 - AB Albert Horsewell?
    8.jpg
    I’d dare to say he could either be Clench or Horsewell, so let’s see. Horsewell is seen aboard Carpathia with a white jacket over his WS jersey, and if you look carefully the neck of his jersey is a bit outstretched. I think we can also see him sitting at Seamen’s Church Institute picture.

    Going back to our man in question, he shares the same quiet expression of Horsewell and facial features –nose, chin, cheeks, frown and ears– and his receding hairline resembles more that of Horsewell than Clench’s one.
    The only difference is that he is not wearing the white jacket, but the neck of his jersey is also outstretched. And there’s also a little problem with his height as Horsewell was 5' 4½" and this man is standing next to QM Rowe, who stood at 5' 6½".


    10 - AB Frederick Clench?
    10.jpg
    This crewman is tagged as Horsewell through the net, and although I don’t discredit 100% that it isn’t him, I believe it’s wrong. In fact they do have similarities but AB Frederick Clench does as well and maybe even more.

    Apart from them, the remainder survivors of the deck department which could be this man are John Foley –I’ve actually never seen a picture of him, but due to his age (46) and height (5' 6") is a vague candidate but a candidate at any rate– and John Anderson, who was 40 had dark hair and moustache and stood at 5' 7".
     
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  9. Paul Burrell

    Paul Burrell Member

    Yes, the chap I thought was Ranger is probably Henry Noss. Bottom left looks like Percy Ball.
     
  10. So lastly, here are the 5 more difficult crewmen to identify in that picture:

    18 – AB Edward Buley?
    18.jpg
    It appears that when they took this photograph the taller men stood at the back while the shorter sat at the front. So who is this thin young guy sitting next to Evans then? Unfortunately, the way he sat put him on a difficult lightning ratio to distinguish details properly, but by what we have, it’s not difficult coming to AB Edward Buley (26) as a potential candidate, by mere process of elimination. Besides, he was 5' 4½" high, so he would certainly be sitting there at the front.


    20 – AB Robert Hopkins??
    Luckily this fellow is sitting in the front row so we can see him clearly to try identifying him. It’s in fact a rare character, and some suggested it was AB Jones, which is wrong. They are similar but Jones is rather bald, which is not the case with this guy if you look carefully.

    Next candidate: it’s also been guessed this was AB Philip Vigott, and there are indeed rather similar. Yet maybe the differences stand out more than the similarities to the closer look. First, there’s something that doesn’t quite match in their expressions and I’d say that our guy sitting in the pic looks a bit older than Vigott too. Then we have some facial feature differences, with our guy having more prominent jaws and chin and more angular features in general. Enough differences perhaps to discredit this man as being Vigott.

    20 Vigott.jpg

    Then? He doesn’t look like AB McCarthy either. So, by process of elimination I just took AB Robert Hopkins (43) into consideration, whose facial features and expression maybe match more than any other, or at least fills the differences that put Vigott out of the list.

    20B.jpg

    Nevertheless, it’s not 100% for sure, and also Anderson and Foley stay as candidates due to the lack of pictures of them.



    21 – AB George McGough??
    The only thing in our favour is that we can see his face clearly, for this guy is rather mysterious. In fact, I’m not sure if he is indeed a member of the deck department.

    It’s been suggested it was John Poingdestre, although I think he looks more like George McGough. Still, there’s a little problem with this fellow’s obesity if we believe he’s either of them, and his expression is also a bit incompatible with them.

    21P.jpg

    Taking a closer look at his facial features and proportions I would say that, if he is a seaman, he would most likely be George McGough. Yet, as I said, there’s something about this man that doesn’t quite fit.


    21 mcgough.jpg


    9 – Lookout Alfred Evans??
    Another bit of a mysterious fellow, but at least we can infer by his clothing that he is a seaman. He seems to be young, maybe between 22 and 27, medium height –not taller than 5' 7" I would say –.

    9 E.jpg

    There are not many seamen left that could match this case, so let’s see: taking a look at some features of this fellow (hair, face/head shape, expression, body proportions) I would infer it’s not William Lucas, George Symons or William Peters. Then I thought James Forward was not a bad candidate, but looking carefully, our fellow has got like a really youthful air that could only match one of these two: AB Archie Jewell (23) and lookout Alfred Evans (25).


    16 - ?

    16U.jpg

    So, here’s the most difficult crewman to identify. Some put him as William Weller, but I think Weller has a bigger, square chin. Other candidates are William Peters and John Poingdestre, but he doesn’t really match with any of them

    Maybe we should even ask ourselves one more time, if he is indeed a member of the crew department.
     
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  11. Paul Burrell

    Paul Burrell Member

    A very comprehemsive piece of work. I have enjoyed studying it.

    Number 9 is Archie Jewell, I think. The fourth photo you have of Jewell (as number 17) is strikingly similar to the chap marked 9 in the photo in question.

    Number 21 is indeed a mystery. It is easier to reconcile this fellow with the later photo of McGough (especially the hairline) but not with the photo taken at around the same time (the one where he is standing next to Leading Fireman Threlfall.

     
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  12. Paul Burrell

    Paul Burrell Member

    Does anyone know where this photo was taken?

    This might help to identify the people in the photo.

    I have seen a similar photo tagged ‘Titanic Firemen Survivors’ on another thread. The photo looks as though it was taken in the same room from the same position.

    My logic is that if say, the photos were taken at the American Inquiry or of those returning from the same (thus not returning on the Lapland?), it might be easier to narrow down the likely names, particularly in the engineering department.
     
  13. B-rad

    B-rad Member

    I believe that it is inside the Institute of Seaman's Friends building in New York. It is indeed the same room and there are multiple pics. The other pic not in room is in front of building in their original cloths. There is another photo of the men receiving their other cloths inside the building.

    titanic crew 3.png

    titanic crew 4.png

    titanic crew.png

    Titanic crew 2.png

    titanic crew 5.png
     
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  14. Thanks and sorry for the late response, I enjoyed working on it too!
    I also think it is likely number 9 is Jewell and 17 Evans.

    That photo was taken at the Seamen's Church Institute where institute staff doled out a full suit of clothes, boots and a cap, as well as a razor and a comb to each sailor. A short mourning service was then held for the lost.
     
  15. Paul Burrell

    Paul Burrell Member

    I think that number 21 might be AB George Moore. His stocky build and face shape fits.
     
  16. Well, they have some similarities... I don't know
    21 moore.jpg
     
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