Gaston Sam
Member
Paul, with Michael we've started a private conversation on the subject, and we wanted to add you too, but it seems we can't. Maybe it has to do with your profile configuration?
Identifying crew in photos
- Thread starter Paul Burrell
- Start date
Gaston Sam
Member
There are a couple men actually, though I'm not very sure if they are ABs. Anyway, the physical information I have for Anderson and Foley is:
Anderson: 5' 7" in height, fresh complexion dark hair and moustache (from a newspaper short article reporting him as having escaped from a mental hospital).
Foley: 5' 6" tall (I took it from an extinct THS forum).
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Paul Burrell
Member
I agree. The man sitting apart from the deck department is likely Harder, not Hemming, but is not #2 on the stairs. I think Harder would wear an AB jersey for two reasons, 1) he is a member of the deck department and 2) he would dress smart as he would be in regular contact/view of the passengers. But, the distance can be explained by the fact that this was his first trip whereas the other ABs had years of experience and were often shipmates.
Thomas Krom
Member
I recently found this quite rare picture of Verandah café steward John Stewart on the website of the French Titanic society. As far as I am aware this picture has not been seen before here, but I could be wrong about that statement.
Michael Hinz
Member
Hello Thomas, thank you for the great picture! It is true that this picture has not yet been discussed here. If we find this man in one of our group pictures, we have proof that it really is John Stewart. It would be great to be able to add this photo to our archives. 
Interestingly, there is some resemblance to the man we have held to date as a hypothetical candidate for Isaac Widgery. Gaston Sam estimated in post #30 that this man must be about 5'10'' tall. John Stewart also seems to have been a relatively tall man.
I also noticed that this man seems to smoke a cigarette in every picture - just like the alleged John Stewart. Maybe John Stewart was a heavy smoker. He died aged 62 in 1946 after a protracted illness.
Interestingly, there is some resemblance to the man we have held to date as a hypothetical candidate for Isaac Widgery. Gaston Sam estimated in post #30 that this man must be about 5'10'' tall. John Stewart also seems to have been a relatively tall man.
I also noticed that this man seems to smoke a cigarette in every picture - just like the alleged John Stewart. Maybe John Stewart was a heavy smoker. He died aged 62 in 1946 after a protracted illness.
Gaston Sam
Member
Hello Thomas, tha nks for that photo. I already knew it, but for some reason I didn't feel he was any of the men in the photos reviewed so far.
I am having second thoughts now, and as Michael suggests, it is possible John Stewart is steward #14 of that photo.
I am having second thoughts now, and as Michael suggests, it is possible John Stewart is steward #14 of that photo.
Michael Hinz
Member
Back to our stair photograph.
One tiny detail caught my attention. On the sweater of #19 there seems to be a white writing. The White Star Line letters should be at this height. This man may also be a member of the deck department even though he wears this strange hat. I would imagine it's John Foley. I know, it is not very convincing but that's all the evidence I have on this man. I could not find a fireman or steward with a similar look.
One tiny detail caught my attention. On the sweater of #19 there seems to be a white writing. The White Star Line letters should be at this height. This man may also be a member of the deck department even though he wears this strange hat. I would imagine it's John Foley. I know, it is not very convincing but that's all the evidence I have on this man. I could not find a fireman or steward with a similar look.
Michael Hinz
Member
These are our results so far. It is impressive in what a short time we have been able to discover so many difficult identities.
1 – Walter Fredericks
2 – Clifford Weller, John Anderson or John Foley?
3 – Thomas Jones?
4 –
5 – Henry Noss
6 – Eustace Snow
7 – Frederick Barrett
8 – George Kemish?
9 – Albert Self
10 – Reginald Lee
11 – Samuel Collins
12 –
13 – John Pearce
14 – Cecil Fitzpatrick
15 – Frank Dymond
16 – Charles Judd
17 – Thomas Knowles
18 – Edgar Lionel Perry
19 – John Foley or John Anderson?
20 – Walter Hurst
21 – Albert Hunt
22 – Albert Hebb
23 – George Taylor
24 – Patrick Dillon
25 – William White
26 – George Cavell
27 –
28 – Franz Kaspar?
29 – Frederick Sheath
30 – Frank Port
31 – Thomas Threlfall
32 – Albert Fryer
33 – George Godley
34 – Robert Couper
35 –
36 – Frederick Doel
37 – Wilfred Foley
38 – Leo Hyland
39 – Joseph Wheat
40 – John Ellis or Alfred Windebank?
1 – Walter Fredericks
2 – Clifford Weller, John Anderson or John Foley?
3 – Thomas Jones?
4 –
5 – Henry Noss
6 – Eustace Snow
7 – Frederick Barrett
8 – George Kemish?
9 – Albert Self
10 – Reginald Lee
11 – Samuel Collins
12 –
13 – John Pearce
14 – Cecil Fitzpatrick
15 – Frank Dymond
16 – Charles Judd
17 – Thomas Knowles
18 – Edgar Lionel Perry
19 – John Foley or John Anderson?
20 – Walter Hurst
21 – Albert Hunt
22 – Albert Hebb
23 – George Taylor
24 – Patrick Dillon
25 – William White
26 – George Cavell
27 –
28 – Franz Kaspar?
29 – Frederick Sheath
30 – Frank Port
31 – Thomas Threlfall
32 – Albert Fryer
33 – George Godley
34 – Robert Couper
35 –
36 – Frederick Doel
37 – Wilfred Foley
38 – Leo Hyland
39 – Joseph Wheat
40 – John Ellis or Alfred Windebank?
Michael Hinz
Member
For #4 I would add our friend Horace Ross as a good candidate.
Michael Hinz
Member
I think #35 could be Henry Sparkman (36 years old, 5'5'' tall).
Julian Atkins
Member
I find all this fascinating and follow it avidly.
I think some context ought to be added as you experts confer. Where the pics were taken and why etc? And why so many individuals?
It is quite significant that some 30% of the ships' crew survived in the lifeboats.
As a bit of an aside, I would like your thoughts on The Californian crew pics; I was told on here Stone wasn't Stone and Groves wasn't Groves; and we have 2 pics of supposedly Stewart in later life that look nothing like the Stewart of 1912. Would you be able or feel so inclined to include The Californian in all this? And apply your expertise?
Cheers,
Julian
I think some context ought to be added as you experts confer. Where the pics were taken and why etc? And why so many individuals?
It is quite significant that some 30% of the ships' crew survived in the lifeboats.
As a bit of an aside, I would like your thoughts on The Californian crew pics; I was told on here Stone wasn't Stone and Groves wasn't Groves; and we have 2 pics of supposedly Stewart in later life that look nothing like the Stewart of 1912. Would you be able or feel so inclined to include The Californian in all this? And apply your expertise?
Cheers,
Julian
Michael Hinz
Member
Thank you for your friendly message.
Only 23,6% (212 of 899 men and women) of the crew members survived the tragedy. No other group was hit so hard by the sinking. About two thirds of the surviving crew members survived in starboard boats, most of them escaped in the boats 11, 13 and 15. Of the 212 surviving crew members, about 30 men were pulled out of the water, the others boarded the lifeboats simply from the deck.
I think it is possible that one day we will look at the pictures of the Californian crew, but then under a new thread.
Only 23,6% (212 of 899 men and women) of the crew members survived the tragedy. No other group was hit so hard by the sinking. About two thirds of the surviving crew members survived in starboard boats, most of them escaped in the boats 11, 13 and 15. Of the 212 surviving crew members, about 30 men were pulled out of the water, the others boarded the lifeboats simply from the deck.
I think it is possible that one day we will look at the pictures of the Californian crew, but then under a new thread.
Michael Hinz
Member
#27 could be greaser Alfred White (32 years old) but I am not absolutely sure.
Michael Hinz
Member
With your permission I would like to present my results for this photo.
Michael Hinz
Member
#1 – Charles Hendrickson
I am sure that this man is leading fireman Charles Hendrickson (28 years old) who was rescued in the famous lifeboat 1.
#2 – George Taylor
Thanks to Sam we know that this man is fireman George Taylor (23 years old). He stands left to Charles Hendrickson who was saved in the same lifeboat.
#3 – Edward Flaherty?
The tallest man in the picture and in my eyes also one of the oldest.I immediately thought of Edward Flaherty - I dont know why. I could not find a fireman with such a heigt.
#4 – George Beauchamp
I have no doubt that this man is fireman George Beauchamp (24 years old). Note his hair line and his outfit.
#5 – Harry Senior
This man is most likely fireman Harry Senior (31 years old). Note his chin and his outfit.
#6 – George Kemish?
Thanks to Paul we can assume that this man is fireman George Kemish (22 years old).
#7 – Arthur John Priest
Sometimes it needs a little imagination to solve a mystery. In this case, half of the man's face is covered by the shadow. But the chin, the mouth and the facial expression soon made me suspect that this man is the "unsinkable stoker" John Priest (24 years old).
#8 – Frank Dymond
He looks like the man I identified on the stair photo as fireman Frank Dymond (36 years old).
#9 – Christopher Shulver
This man is definitely fireman Christopher Shulver (28 years old).
#10 – James Moore
Even though the lighting conditions are not so good, I clearly see fireman James Moore (29 years old) in this man.
#11 – unknown
I was wondering if these two men could be the same person. Also a similarity between fireman Albert Self (24 years old) and #11 cannot be denied. Maybe you can help me with this unknown man.
#12 – George Thresher
Even if the photo quality is not very good, we can still see a facial shape that matches that of fireman George Thresher (25 years old).
#13 – Alfred White?
I could not find a fireman with a similar look. My only thought was greaser Alfred White (32 years old) but it is not very convincing.
I am sure that this man is leading fireman Charles Hendrickson (28 years old) who was rescued in the famous lifeboat 1.
#2 – George Taylor
Thanks to Sam we know that this man is fireman George Taylor (23 years old). He stands left to Charles Hendrickson who was saved in the same lifeboat.
#3 – Edward Flaherty?
The tallest man in the picture and in my eyes also one of the oldest.I immediately thought of Edward Flaherty - I dont know why. I could not find a fireman with such a heigt.
#4 – George Beauchamp
I have no doubt that this man is fireman George Beauchamp (24 years old). Note his hair line and his outfit.
#5 – Harry Senior
This man is most likely fireman Harry Senior (31 years old). Note his chin and his outfit.
#6 – George Kemish?
Thanks to Paul we can assume that this man is fireman George Kemish (22 years old).
#7 – Arthur John Priest
Sometimes it needs a little imagination to solve a mystery. In this case, half of the man's face is covered by the shadow. But the chin, the mouth and the facial expression soon made me suspect that this man is the "unsinkable stoker" John Priest (24 years old).
#8 – Frank Dymond
He looks like the man I identified on the stair photo as fireman Frank Dymond (36 years old).
#9 – Christopher Shulver
This man is definitely fireman Christopher Shulver (28 years old).
#10 – James Moore
Even though the lighting conditions are not so good, I clearly see fireman James Moore (29 years old) in this man.
#11 – unknown
I was wondering if these two men could be the same person. Also a similarity between fireman Albert Self (24 years old) and #11 cannot be denied. Maybe you can help me with this unknown man.
#12 – George Thresher
Even if the photo quality is not very good, we can still see a facial shape that matches that of fireman George Thresher (25 years old).
#13 – Alfred White?
I could not find a fireman with a similar look. My only thought was greaser Alfred White (32 years old) but it is not very convincing.
