If the Titanic's stern had been damaged

[Arun Vajpey]

Since this is a "what if..." thread, I want to ask about a hypothetical scenario whereby the impact with the iceberg caused exactly the same amount of overall damage (as calculated in square feet by Edward Wilding) to the Titanic but affected mainly the stern instead of the bow. If this damage had included an early flooding of Boiler Room No:1, could it have plunged the Titanic into darkness?

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>If this damage had included an early flooding of Boiler Room No:1, could it have plunged the Titanic into darkness?<<

Since any such damage would have likely involved the generator rooms, I would have to say yes.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

>>>>>> Since any such damage would have likely involved the generator rooms, I would have to say yes <<<<<<<

I shudder even to think about putting myself in the position of the engine room and other crew far below in the bowels of the ship and even many of the steerage passengers in such a scenario.

 

[Jeremy Aufderheide]

The Empress of Ireland had a similar situation. The lights went out and everyone was trapped below deck in a rapidly sinking ship in complete darkness.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Arun,

The boilers in BR 1 were NOT lit during the atlantic crossing, therefore of that room would not have any affect on on the ability to feed steam to the generators. And even if the the dynamos compartment were flooded, the ship would not be in total darkness since the emergency dynamos up on D deck would be working thus providing emergency lighting throughout the ship.

As far as the overall amount of damage in square feet is concerned, that factor effects the flooding rate, not the survivability of the ship. It is the extent of the damage that is the primary factor that needs to be considered in addition to the total amount of damage. Go to THIS LINK and scroll down the page to the diagram labeled "Permissible Flooding Conditions" which shows the maximum number of compartments that can be flooded in any given location without the ship foundering.

 

[Arun Vajpey]

>>>>>> The boilers in BR 1 were NOT lit during the atlantic crossing, therefore of that room would not have any affect on on the ability to feed steam to the generators. And even if the the dynamos compartment were flooded, the ship would not be in total darkness since the emergency dynamos up on D deck would be working thus providing emergency lighting throughout the ship. <<<<<<


Thanks for that Sam. I did not know that BR 1 was not in use during the Titanic's maiden voyage.

Would the emergency lighting have extended to ALL areas of the ship - ie where the 'black gang' worked, where the off duty crew were resting, in steerage etc?

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Hi Arun,

The two emergency steam driven dynamos on D deck were able to take steam from boilers in either boiler room 2, 3 or 5. They were intended to be available in case the main dynamo compartment flooded. The electrical circuit coming off of them was separate from the main electrical circuitry of the ship. There were 500 incandescent lights fitted throughout all passenger and crew compartments, down in the engine and boiler room spaces, at the end of passages, near stairways, and up on the boat deck. The lighting was arranged to allow anyone to find their way from one part of the ship to the other. The emergency dynamos were run every night (not just during an emergency) from sunset to sunrise.

 

[Brent Holt]

Has anyone ever put together a "Permissible Flooding Conditions" for Britannic and Olympic? (After the post-disaster modifications, obviously) It would be interesting to see the improvement.

 

[Samuel Halpern]

Brent,

They probably exist in H&W archives in tabular form. What I put together for Titanic came from the work of Hackett and Bedford.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>It would be interesting to see the improvement.<<

While there would have been some differences, I expect that the curves would have been broadly similar. Which is to say, if you flood the same number of spaces, the ship would go down. What the voids along the side of the ship would have done was to confine the damage and flooding to a much smaller area so the really big compartments wouldn't be flooded out in the first place.

 

[Brent Holt]

I also wonder how many of the wing watertight compartments for Britannic could have been flooded before the list would have threatened to capsize the ship? (Although I suspect she might have been able to survive flooding in all of them on one side like Aquitania since the inner skin sections were not very wide.)

 

[Samuel Halpern]

>>I expect that the curves would have been broadly similar. Which is to say, if you flood the same number of spaces, the ship would go down. <<

That is not accurate. The curves would be radically different for reasons listed on this page dealing with MODIFICATIONS TO OLYMPIC.

Also, as explained on that page, the double skin only extended across the machinery spaces, from the BR6 back through the turbine engine room. It was subdivided into several small compartments to minimize the extent of flooding in that space should the outer skin be compromised.

 

[Brent Holt]

Taking a blind guess, I would say Britannic, in addition to staying afloat with the first 6 compartments flooded or maybe the last 6, she probably could have stayed afloat with any 3 or 4 as well. Some of the bulkheads were raised in height quite a bit.

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>The curves would be radically different for reasons listed on this page dealing with MODIFICATIONS TO OLYMPIC.<<

Mmmmmmm...point taken.

 

[Jane Smith]

I often wonder what Titanic would look like sinking by the stern, aside from being plunged in total darkness.

 

[coal eater]

it would have bow rising in air and she would break between first and second funnel

 

[David G. Brown]

Titanic would have been steaming 22 knots in reverse. Wow! Imagine Jack 'n Rose doing "king of the world" over the fantail. Seriously, it didn't happen, so we can't know what "might have been" unless we're lawyers who alone are unconfined by the boundaries of truth an science. Still 22 knots backwards would really have shaken things up in third class.

-- David G. Brown

"History does not reveal its alternatives."

 

[coal eater]

dont forget titanic turbine was so poorly constructed it could not be reversed,lympic was capable of doing this in later use.
with full astern with no turbine will you reach max 14-16 knots astern. no turbine ...

and no third class would be not so much shaked seeing that titanic go in reverse, but after hour and half propellers would be visible and speed of liner greatly reduced,also cannot launch lifeboats with engines running because propellers would work as meat grinder

by the way titanic also was equipped with one motor launch but was never used

 

[David G. Brown]

All turbines go only one direction, so Titanic's was not "poorly constructed." It simply did not have a companion reverse turbine because maneuvering was best done with the wing propellers.

Which boat had the motor? First I've heard of it.

-- David G. Brown

 

[Jane Smith]

Let’s just say the stern hit the iceberg or something.
So if the iceberg punctured Boiler rooms 1& 2, the reciprocating engine room, turbine engine room, and anything aft of these rooms started flooding.
Would it cause the reciprocating engines and turbine engine to explode or is that only the boilers.

Also, I’m guessing if the engine rooms, and electrical engines were compromised, would the emergency dynamos on D Deck kitchen kick in?