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In the doghouse

Discussion in 'Real Dogs' started by KB Vogelsong, Feb 9, 2003.

  1. KB Vogelsong

    KB Vogelsong Guest

    From the Astor's Airedale, Kitty to Robert W. Daniel's french bulldog, Gamon de Pycombe. From Sun Yat Sen to Frou Frou.

    From what I've read, heard, and seen there were several other passengers that brought their pets on board (and most, who lost them when the Titanic sank).

    Only two survived the sinking...exactly how many animals were on the Titanic? Who were their owners? And what were their names?
     
  2. Bob Godfrey

    Bob Godfrey Member

    KB, there were several chickens carried as cargo, and also a canary which was taken off at Cherbourg. I don't know the canary's name, but I think 'Lucky' would have been appropriate!
     
  3. KB Vogelsong

    KB Vogelsong Guest

    Hey Bob,

    Thanx for the info. I thought for sure there were (at least) several more dogs...but I must be mistaken.

    Lucky, the canary. Now I now how I named my cat!! Lol!
     
  4. Bob Godfrey

    Bob Godfrey Member

    KB, I think there were more dogs. I was talking only about the cargo. I think in the book 'Ghosts of the Titanic' there is even an estimate of the number of rats onboard!

    Bob
     
  5. Bob Godfrey

    Bob Godfrey Member

    KB, there are several threads about the Titanic's animals in the 'Cargo Manifest' section.

    Bob
     
  6. Hey KB

    There was Jenny the Titanic's cat who had a litter of kittens a week before sailing.

    There were also 9 dogs in all:
    JJ Astor's Airedale, Kitty
    Robert W. Daniel's french bulldog, Gamon de Pycombe.
    William Carter had 2 dogs on board, one was an Airedale.
    Harry Anderson's chow dog.
    Mrs Dickinson Bishop's dog Frou-Frou, who stayed in her owners room the voyage, but was left behind.

    Margaret Hays's Pomeranian, who escaped in boat 7
    Elizabeth Rothschild escaped with her dog into boat 6
    Henry Sleeper Harper's Pekinese, Sun Yat Sen, escaped in boat 3 with her owners

    (Source: Eaton and Haas, Titanic A Journey Through Time, 1999, pg 234)

    -Trent
     
  7. George Behe

    George Behe Member

    Hi, Trent!

    There is an interview (quoted elsewhere in the ET archive) which claims that the cat carried her kittens ashore and abandoned the Titanic before the ship commenced her maiden voyage.

    Also, Mrs. Goldenberg thought that the Astors had two dogs on board; there may have been other canines that we don't know about.

    All my best,

    George
     
  8. Hey George, how have you been?

    It's good to know the cat made it off! It is true that there are always those unknowns as to absolute number's when it comes to the Titanic! Thanks for the info.

    -Trent
     
  9. KB Vogelsong

    KB Vogelsong Guest

    Bob and Trent;

    Thanx for the info. I have several books that each talk about the pets, with varying stories of their demise (or survival). I'll have to check out, both "Ghosts of the Titanic," and the ET archive.

    Thanx again,

    KB
     
  10. Dave Gittins

    Dave Gittins Member

    The cat story I found says that the clever pussycat saved a human life. A stoker named Joe Mulholland was one of the 'runners' who brought Titanic down to Southampton. He stayed on board for a while, wondering whether to join the ship for the voyage to New York, or to join a tramp steamer, which would give him several month's work. As he looked over the side, he saw the cat take her kittens onto the wharf. He decided that the cat knew what was best. He grabbed his bag, found a tramp steamer and lived happily ever after. Years later, he told the tale to a notable Irish Times reporter named Paddy Scott. Guinness is good for you!
     
  11. Lee Gilliland

    Lee Gilliland Member

    I remember reading somewhere that there was going to be a dog show of some kind either Monday or Tuesday that was cancelled for obvious reasons.
     
  12. George Behe

    George Behe Member

    Hi, Tuna!

    Yes, Mrs. Goldenberg mentioned a dog show that was scheduled for Monday.

    All my best,

    George
     
  13. I've looked the deck plans over pretty good. Where was the kennel??

    Dave
     
  14. Good question. Eaton and Haas place them on F Deck just across the passageway from the 3rd Class Galley, but this is a highly debatable proposition for obvious health and sanitation concerns. Unfiortunately, nobody really knows for sure.
     
  15. George Behe

    George Behe Member

    Hi, David!

    The 'alternate' (and IMO most realistic) location for the Titanic's kennels is thought to be behind #4 funnel. There are several threads here on ET that discuss this matter in detail.

    All my best,

    George
     
  16. I just wish there was a White Star or a Harland & Wolff source extant somewhere to confirm that George. Unfortunately, I have a hunch it was one of those last minute improvised modifications that don't make it into the records.
     
  17. KB Vogelsong

    KB Vogelsong Guest

    So, we'll never know for sure?

    Bummer...
     
  18. All,

    "Eaton and Haas place them on F Deck just across the passageway from the 3rd Class Galley..."

    They got their plans from the Liability material. Many may know of the Liability case filed against the Oceanic Steamship Navigation, for the loss of property and life as a result of the Titanic disaster.

    In 1914, Harland and Wolff submitted a general arrangements deck plan (for all decks) of Titanic. It is similar to the more popularly known Olympic 1911 plan, only this one was specifically for Titanic. This plan shows the Kennels on F deck. However, they may very well have been relocated during the actual voyage.

    I have also seen an Olympic deck plan which places the kennels on the boat deck, and my personal belief, is that this is where they were on Titanic.

    Regards,

    Daniel.

    PS. Eaton and Haas redrew the deck plan themselves and have copyrighted it. Anyone wishing to use it, can get it from NARA, and there are no copyright restriction on it at all, just credit NARA for it.
     
  19. Bob Godfrey

    Bob Godfrey Member

    Daniel, I agree. We know that at least some of the dogs onboard were exercised on the poop deck, and it would have been a daunting task for the 'minder' and a considerable inconvenience to others to coax the animals up and down several flights of steps and along a considerable distance of alleyways to achieve this on a regular basis.

    It's possible, I suppose, that the dogs seen up top were all 'cabin passengers' and those in the kennels never saw the light of day, but otherwise the location on F deck is totally impractical. There have been suggestions that a location close to the galley would be convenient at feeding times, but it would have been a great deal easier to take the food to the dogs than the dogs to the upper decks.
     
  20. Bob,

    Also, regarding dogs being seen up top, I have never heard of any of the dogs actually being 'submitted' to the kennels. The Astors kept their dog in their cabin, so did the Carters, Mrs. Bishop, Miss Hays and Robert Daniel and Henry Harper ... these are the ones I'm positive about.
    I think Robert Daniel is the one that is believed to have gone to the kennels and freed the dogs. Which dogs? His was in his cabin on A deck, and as far as I listed, most other dogs were as well. Mrs. Rothschild hid her dog in her hand-muff, and if the dog was that small, I'm sure it was also kept in the Rothschild cabin on C deck. Mr. Harper had his dog in his cabin, and had it on his arm when he took it up to the boats with him. Harry Anderson also had a dog, but I don't know if he kept it in his cabin on E deck or this might have been the only dog in the kennels. From memory, Anderson's dog was not large, and thus was possibly kept in the cabin (E12). Perhaps the dogs were minded by someone every day and taken for 'poops', but so far as I can see, possibly none of them were actually kept in the kennels!

    As for Miss Isham’s dog, no one really knows whether she had one or not.
    Daniel.

    PS. Here's the scan of the H&W plan which shows the kennels on F deck:

    Screenshot 2017-08-31 22.44.04.png