Is the Aft Grand Staircase still in the wreck


Oct 27, 2005
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I was here wondering is the Aft Grand Staircase is still on the stern os the ship, or if it just floated up, like it is rumoured about the Main Grand Staircase.
I think no explorations inside the back of the ship have ever been done. Why don't they just develop tiny robots that can go inside the windows and explore from there? I know it's expensive... but at least it's a better use of money than when used in the construction of football stadiums or war.
 

John Clifford

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Mar 30, 1997
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quote:

I think no explorations inside the back of the ship have ever been done.
That's because the stern section is in such a terrible shape that it is prohibitive, if not impossible, to explore those interiors.​
 
M

Matt Pereira

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The Aft grand staircase isnt no wheres to be found, the aft grand staircase was located on the aft wall of the recipriocating engine ventilation shaft, in the breakup this whole area broke up to small pieces including the aft staircase. I have heard on this site that they have found the Aft staircase dome most likely just the framework and i doubt its in good shape but i did also hear that theres no glass attached to the dome.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Why don't they just develop tiny robots that can go inside the windows and explore from there?<<

It's been tried to a certain point already. Robot drones have been getting smaller with each generation thanks in no small part to the electronics revolution and microprocessors. The interior exploration accomplished thus far by any expedition wouldn't have been possible otherwise.

The problem in this instance is that the stern section is such a shattered and imploded mess that it's considered too risky, even for robots.
 
Feb 14, 2011
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Quite a bit of grand staircase wood was picked out of the water by the Minia, one section stenciled 'aft'- so odds are good the aft grand staircase did indeed detach from the stern, but likely crumbled apart....
 
Nov 26, 2005
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The wrought iron and dome skeleton could have come form 2 different places, please remember.

We can pretty much lay to rest that the fwd staircase was ripped to shreds.

From what I understand, the theory on exactly WHERE the ship broke in half is still just that, a theory. If the ship broke as depicted in Cameron's movie (which I doubt) remnants of the aft staircase could well still be buried in the twisted and destroyed secion of the stern.

Now if the ship broke the way Ballard and others have thought it broke, that would mean the aft reception room (and staircase) would have been turned to toothpicks as the first class smoking room along with it.

Either way, either section (smoking room & Staircase reception) would be so far collapsed inward that anybody willing to pay for a robot to climb in there and possibly have the structure of the ship collapse on it would have to be gambling with QUITE a bit of $$$$$$$$. Those ROV's are no cheap toy.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Matthew-

quote:

From what I understand, the theory on exactly WHERE the ship broke in half is still just that, a theory.

Actually, it isn't a theory, really. The ship's main break occurred just aft of the third funnel. The thing about this, however, is that there was no "actual" point, as the missing section merely crumbled away as the bow continued listing to port.

As for for the aft grand staircase, it was first exposed to the sea when the starboard suites were pulled apart (those on port side were simultaneously crunched together as the hull plates on that side compressed). As the reciprocating exhaust fell out, the staircase followed, in pieces, likely out of the forward and top as the ship continued twisting to port upon its descent.

The smoking room didn't collapse, per se. As the aft boat deck pulled apart due to the increasing stress from the weight of the flooding water, the roof and walls were simply torn away, leaving the floor exposed to the sea. If anyone was in there (and it's believed that both Andrews and Stead were), whatever they went through must have been a nightmare, although chances are that the destruction happened so fast that, neither man (nor anyone else who happened to have been there) probably knew what hit him.

As a matter of fact, the top surface of the superstructure on the wreck of the stern, resting on the engines and curved down on either side is what's left of the smoking room.

I am developing an ET article on this, so I have been studying the detailed dynamics of the "break" for some time. If anyone else has any more information related to this, please feel free to share. Thanks!​
 
Jun 12, 2004
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I've already seen, and studied, these, Mike. They are two of my main sources. ;) Rest assured, from the way the ship crumbled and by the appearance of the wreck site, the aft grand staircase was long-gone before the stern hit bottom.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>I've already seen, and studied, these, Mike.<<

Sorry if there was any misunderstanding but I was aiming that post at Matthew. I see by the time stamps that I was still digging this up when you posted.

>>Rest assured, from the way the ship crumbled and by the appearance of the wreck site, the aft grand staircase was long-gone before the stern hit bottom.<<

I agree. As mangled as this part of the ship is, about the only thing that stayed inside was either in as deep as you could go, or so securely bolted in that short of being hit with a nuke, it wasn't going anywhere.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Mike-

quote:

Sorry if there was any misunderstanding but I was aiming that post at Matthew. I see by the time stamps that I was still digging this up when you posted.

Yes, I know. I wasn't certain whether or not you remembered the research I've done on this. There was the possibility that you might have been questioning what I had said and were directing me to the sources. Sorry about that. My misunderstanding.


quote:

the only thing that stayed inside was either in as deep as you could go, or so securely bolted in that short of being hit with a nuke, it wasn't going anywhere.

And, as it appears, the only items that firmly set would have been the engines, and even the two forward reciprocators fell out due to the second (aft) break in the keel. When the stern hit bottom and the starboard hull flopped off, much of what was inside spewed out.

I will make exception for three other features: the main stairwell in the aft 3C area, the 2C entrance/elevator and the aft mast, but only because these three were a part of the ship's structure in areas that weren't really open or near an expansion joint. They were entrenched deep within the ship, so I can see why they didn't fall away as well.

Of course, there are the freezers, too . . . Such nitpicking, hehe.​
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>My misunderstanding.<<

No big deal.
wink.gif


>>Of course, there are the freezers, too . . . Such nitpicking, hehe.<<

There is that, but I doubt the implosion of this part of the structure did it a whole lot of good. I wouldn't be even remotely surprised if some chunks are scattered about in the debris field.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Mike--

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I wouldn't be even remotely surprised if some chunks are scattered about in the debris field.

I take it that no pieces of it have yet been found? I am surprised by that. If any are ever found, they would definitely provide evidence as to what actually happened when it came under pressure of the flooding water, hull stresses, and the descent, the latter of which would have raged more than enough havoc on its own. The increasing water pressure is what likely caused the implosion. Imagine the damage it must have created within the ship.​
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>I take it that no pieces of it have yet been found?<<

Not that I'm aware of but I may have missed something.

>>I am surprised by that.<<

I'm not. It's a mighty BIG debris field out there. Surely any wood out in the mud has already ended up as a snack for something. Don't know about any iron fixtures like bulestrades.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Mike-

I thought the ship's freezer was made of metal. I can't imagine any wood being associated with its construction. Then again, I'm not quite sure how this was made, but I am curious. If anyone out there has any pictures of this, please share. I'd be very obliged.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>I thought the ship's freezer was made of metal.<<

Mmmmmmmmm....my bust. I thought we were still discussing the aft staircase. The freezer was indeed made of metal but also lined with cork as insulation. We know that much was ejected from the wreck because it was seen floating among the debris. As to the metal, I doubt any of it would be recognizable unless seen by a well trained eye who knew exactly what to look for.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Mike-

quote:

I thought we were still discussing the aft staircase

Sorry for the confusion. But yes--we should stick with the topic at hand, and that is the aft grand staircase.

Were those wooden steps from the aft grand staircase found a while ago? They didn't appear to be from either, as they seemed straight, not curved, and had open slits between each step. I could be wrong though. I'd have to go back and view that particular photo again.


quote:

We know that much was ejected from the wreck because it was seen floating among the debris.

Really? I never knew that. Such a discovery must have been an eye-opener for the searchers of that time.

By the way, considering the location of the freezer far below in the depths of the ship, you'd think that this would be an indication to those of the time that the ship had, in fact, broken apart, otherwise such material would not/could not have found its way to the surface of the water.​
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Were those wooden steps from the aft grand staircase found a while ago?<<

I don't think so. I know there were fragments of the structure of the forward Grand Staircase which were identified inside the wreck. You'ed have to ask Ken Marschall as he's the one who identified the fragments in the wreck photos.

>>Such a discovery must have been an eye-opener for the searchers of that time.<<

Curiously, nobody seemed to think it was that big a deal at the time, but then popular understanding of forensic science wasn't quite what it is today.
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Mike-

quote:

Curiously, nobody seemed to think it was that big a deal at the time, but then popular understanding of forensic science wasn't quite what it is today.

Maybe not, but it's still strange that some seasoned seamen or officers, or someone with experience in stress dynamics, didn't see the floating cork and think: Hey, now wait a minute . . . . It seems as if they were so concerned with pointing fingers and cast blame about that they weren't really paying attention.

I wonder if Wilding would have noticed (concluded a break up) had he been out there to see it, hmmm.​
 

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