May 1, 2004
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Could it be the reason for Miss Isham's not being seen the night of the collision that she was not in the First Class section of the ship?

Is it possible she had a friend in Second or even Third Class w/whom she was visiting, and was therefore denied access to the Boat Deck?

This question has long been on my mind. I've made use of the search engine on ET and found nothing specifically addressing this.

Thanks!
 
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T

Trent Pheifer

Guest
Hey Jonathan,

I am not sure, but it would seem unlikely that she would be visiting someone in Second or Third Class. I had always thought that some of the barriers in the ship, were not just ment to keep Third-Class passengers out of First-Class areas, also visa versa, for health code reasons.

IMHO, if visitation could occur it seems it would have been very late for for Miss Isham to do so. It would seem more likely that she would have done so during the day.

I would be more inclined to believe this if anyone could support that she was friends with anyone in Second or Third Class.

There seems to be very little if anything about her ship board experience. Colonel Gracie whom was very near to Miss Ishams cabin does not remember seeing her once! This may be another one of Titanic's mysteries that we will never know.

-Trent
 
May 1, 2004
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Hey Jonathan,

I am not sure, but it would seem unlikely that she would be visiting someone in Second or Third Class. I had always thought that some of the barriers in the ship, were not just ment to keep Third-Class passengers out of First-Class areas, also visa versa, for health code reasons.

IMHO, if visitation could occur it seems it would have been very late for for Miss Isham to do so. It would seem more likely that she would have done so during the day.

I would be more inclined to believe this if anyone could support that she was friends with anyone in Second or Third Class.

There seems to be very little if anything about her ship board experience. Colonel Gracie whom was very near to Miss Ishams cabin does not remember seeing her once! I think this will be another one of Titanic's mysteries that we will never know.

-Trent
 
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May 1, 2004
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Having been away for a few months I've become un-used to the intricacies of this board (nothing to do w/my middle age!). In any case, I replied to Trent that my first and only thought about Miss Isham is that she was carrying on a secret 'intrigue' w/a Third Class passenger, thereby denying her access to the Boat Deck.

But we shall never know. And, as Trent described it, it's another mystery of the early morning of April, 15, 1912...
 
May 1, 2004
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I keep coming back to: HOW did she get 'missed' for a chance to enter a lifeboat? Isn't she the only woman from First Class whom nobody saw after the collision and before the sinking? Mrs. Straus, Mrs. & Miss Allison, Edith Evans; all accounted for.

I simply don't understand this oversight!
 
Jan 18, 2006
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>>In any case, I replied to Trent that my first and only thought about Miss Isham is that she was carrying on a secret 'intrigue' w/a Third Class passenger, thereby denying her access to the Boat Deck.
<<

Life imitating art? :)
 
May 12, 2005
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To judge by photos of Ann Isham and from what is known about her family, it would appear she was a conservative person. She was also an older woman (in her 50s at least). The idea of this rather heavy-set, sweet-faced lady having an affair with a steerage immigrant is really very funny to me, although I suppose a Weight Watchers version of the Jack and Rose love story isn't improbable, however amusing.

But it seems we are getting a bit far-fetched in our desire to solve the puzzle of her loss.

It's most likely that she was simply one of many faces in the crowd on deck that night and went unobserved, both because of her retiring nature and the emergency afoot. Perhaps she simply, quietly refused to get into a boat for whatever reason or, like Edith Evans, just missed her chance to do so.

There are no accounts of Isham being on deck but perhaps that's because those who knew or saw her did not live to give an account.
 
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John Clifford

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I also seem to recall that Ms. Isham also owned a rather large dog, which was on the ship, albeit in the kennels.
I believe Phil posted that Ms. Isham chose not to leave the dog behind, and thus that may have been the reason she did not get in to a lifeboat.
 
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George Behe

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Dec 11, 1999
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Hi, John!

Nice to see you here, old chap! :)

Although I might be mistaken, I believe the story that Miss Isham owned a dog on the Titanic originated with Marty Crisp's new children's novel, "White Star" (and possibly the website that is devoted to Marty's novel.)

Marty decided to have Miss Isham 'be' a dog owner so that there would be a 'connection' between the little-known Miss Isham and the post-sinking sighting of a deceased woman who was clinging to the floating body of a large dog. I expressed the opinion to Marty that 'making' Miss Isham a dog owner might possibly cause confusion for future 'Titanic dog researchers,' and I'm pretty sure that that has just happened in this thread.

In any case, though, I'd like to recommend Marty's book to everyone here; she did a very good job of researching her story, and the results are well worth reading.

All my best,

George
 

John Clifford

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Hi George.

I rechecked the post about Anna Isham, and noted:
"It has been suggested that Miss Isham brought on board with her a dog (possibly a Great Dane), and some believe that it was her refusal to leave her dog. that led to her death. It has been further suggested that she was the woman observed to have had her arms frozen around her dog in the water following the sinking. However, no firm evidence has been found to support the claims."

It appears that whatever happened to Ms. Isham, during the sinking, is something that we will never fully know.
 

George Behe

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Hi, John!

>I rechecked the post about Anna Isham, and noted:

Which post was that? (Did it contain any further documentation as to where this information about the dog came from?)

> It appears that whatever happened to Ms. Isham, >during the sinking, is something that we will
>never fully know.

I agree.

All my best,

George
 

John Clifford

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Hi George.

Which post was that? (Did it contain any further documentation as to where this information about the dog came from?)

Wrong term used, by me. What I cited was Ms. Isham's biography in the Passenger Information Section.
 

George Behe

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Dec 11, 1999
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Hi, John!

Thanks very much for the clarification, old chap.

Phil H., do you happen to remember where you obtained the info suggesting that Miss Isham had a dog on the Titanic? (Was it by chance Marty Crisp's website devoted to the Titanic's dogs and her book "White Star?")

All my best,

George
 

Bob Godfrey

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Sounds like Ms Crisp might have been inspired by that great maker of myths, (the man who gave us Rigel the wonder dog), Logan Marshall:

"A survivor informs me that there was on the ship a lady who was taking out a huge great Dane dog. When the boats were rapidly filling she appeared on deck with her canine companion and sadly entreated that he should be taken off with her. It was impossible. Human lives, those of women and children, were the first consideration. She was urged to seize the opportunity to save her own life and leave the dog. She refused to desert him and, I understand, sacrificed her life with him".
 

George Behe

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Dec 11, 1999
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Hi, Bob!

You're absolutely correct about that. Marty was faced with deciding if her book's "Miss Isham" should own a great Dane (as in the account you've quoted) or if she should own a St. Bernard (which, if I recall correctly, was the breed of dog whose body was seen floating alongside the deceased woman.) For dramatic purposes, Marty wanted *both* women to be Miss Isham (although, at the moment, I don't recall which breed of dog Marty finally settled on.)

All my best,

George
 
Jun 12, 2004
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Paul,

No, C-49 (Isham's cabin) was, along with Gracie's, on the starboard side forward of the main grand staircase, so it's still intact. However, since C-Deck is presumably crushed, no one really knows the actual condition of her cabin.

As for the exact location, Gracie's was astride of the first funnel casing on the starboard side, so hers would be nearby. I'd have to check the BPs again, but it could have been right next door or right across the hall. If anyone (aside from the steward) would/could have known whether or not she ever left her cabin, it would presumably have been Gracie. He supposedly knew her, and he was right there. Had he ever said anything about checking her cabin for her?
 
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Mark,

C-49 was immediately forward of C-51.

In his book Gracie states that Miss Isham's relatives, learning that her stateroom, No C, 49 adjoined mine, wrote me ...... It was with much regret that I replied that I had not seen my neighbour at any time, and, not having had the pleasure of her acquaintance, identification was impossible. I was, however, glad to be able to assure her family of one point, viz., that she did not meet with the horrible fate which they feared, in being locked in her stateroom ......