Jun 12, 2004
2,131
0
161
Thanks, Lester. It's appreciated. The one thing is this: if he had never made her aquaintance, how would he know that she wasn't in her stateroom? (unless he managed to look into an empty C-49) That's a different discussion altogether. I've read parts of his book, but it has been so long that I don't remember a lot of it. I should get back to reading it again.

Anyway, thank's for the info.
 
Jun 12, 2004
2,131
0
161
By the way, I apparently made a mistake: I was thinking of Edith Evans. I read somewhere that she was acquainted with Gracie. That's the one of whom I was thinking, not Isham. Sorry.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dec 6, 2000
1,480
3
221
Good point Mark. Gracie goes on to say [page 41]: ..... and drowned. I had revisited my stateroom twice after being aroused by the collision, and am sure that she was fully warned of what happened, and after she left her stateroom it was locked behind her, as was mine.
 

Gary.J Bell

Member
May 30, 2004
52
0
86
Hi
I just read through all the entries on this tread and theres one i would like to comment on.
In Lester Mitchams last post he said that in Colonel Gracie's account, he stated that he was able to reassure Miss.Ishams family that she had not suffered the horrible fate of being locked in her stateroom!
Was this really happening?? I mean, were the first class staterooms being locked to prevent chance theiving? Obviousley the staff were checking for occupants first? startling!
Thanx
 
Dec 6, 2000
1,480
3
221
Hi Gary,

It would seem they were being locked, but they may not have been checked first.
On page 86 of the Illustrated edition of ANTR after talking about passengers finding their rooms under water Walter Lord says:
".... Victorine ..., had an even more disturbing experience. She found her cabin still dry, but as she rummaged about, she heard a key turn and suddenly realized the steward was locking the stateroom door to prevent looting. Her shriek was just in time to keep him from locking her in. ...."
 

Gary.J Bell

Member
May 30, 2004
52
0
86
Thanx Lester!
What a horrible thought! being locked in your room.
Hopefully most stewards were a bit more careful.

Gary
 
Jun 12, 2004
2,131
0
161
It would not only be responsible, but it would make sense for the steward to actually check the rooms first before locking them. If I were a stewart on a sinking ship, that's what I would do. As a matter of fact, I'd probably cry out to those who occupy cabins in my section, just to alert them.

--Mark
 
Jun 12, 2004
2,131
0
161
On the other hand, for those who were strong enough, if they had been locked in their rooms and knew the ship was sinking, they no doubt would have kicked the door open and ran out.
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Dec 3, 2000
5,342
35
308
At least a knock on the door before turning the key, one would have thought! But perhaps the steward had found all deserted down there, and had assumed everyone was gone (no doubt he was feeling the pressure of time by that point, too!)

I'm reminded of a story Dad heard in the aftermath of the 1994 NSW Bushfires when he was helping with a Ministerial de-briefing up North. Firefighters related how the fires were encroaching on a residential area, and the order was given to evacuate. The firefighters were going door to door, checking that no one was still there. House after house was empty, and the flames were almost upon them - someone stated that all the residents must have evacuated, and that they were endangering their own lives if they stopped to check every house. But the State Forrestry men persisted...and when they opened the last door to the last house in the street, there was a little old lady with a bag packed, waiting for someone to come and collect her.

The entire street went up in flames shortly after they got her out.
 

Paul Lee

Member
Aug 11, 2003
2,239
2
163
If any amidships passengers were locked in an outside cabin, you'd have thought that they would have opened their porthole and yelled for help as the lifeboats passed!
happy.gif


Cheers

Paul
--
http://www.paullee.com
 

Gary.J Bell

Member
May 30, 2004
52
0
86
It just seems odd to me, that someone like Miss.Isham could vanish into the mist (so to speak).
What i mean is,nobody seems to recall seeing her at all during the night so there is no real explanation for her not survivng. The only other first class women to not survive have stories. Mrs.Allison,Miss Evans and Mrs.Strauss. Miss Isham just seems to have made no appearance on deck at all.

Gary
 
Jan 10, 2006
28
0
71
All:

My apologies for jumping in here. I am not too familiar with Miss. Isham but can anyone at all recall her being on board the Titanic? Was she seen dining? If Gracie was near Miss Isham's cabin then perhaps they shared the same steward (maybe Miss Isham had a stewardess....most all of whom were saved). If they did share the same steward, did Gracie recall seeing his survive? Just a couple of questions. Anyone have any answers?

Geoff
 

Inger Sheil

Member
Dec 3, 2000
5,342
35
308
Hallo Geoff - here's what Gracie wrote about Isham:
quote:

The fifth lady lost was Miss A.E.Isham, and she is the only one of whom no survivor, so far as I can learn, is able to give any information whatever as to where she was or what she did on that fateful Sunday night. Her relatives, learning that her stateroom, No. C, 49, adjoined mine, wrote me in the hope that I might be able to furnish some information to their sorrowing hearts about her last hours on the shipwrecked Titanic. It was with much regret that I replied that I had not seen my neighbor at any time, and, not having the pleasure of her acquaintance, identification was impossible. I was, however, glad to be able to assure her family of one point, viz., that she did not meet with the horrible fate which they feared, in being locked in her stateroom and drowned. I had revisited my stateroom twice after being aroused by the collision, and am sure that she was fully warned of what had happened, and after she left her stateroom it was locked behind her, as was mine.
It does sound as if Gracie attempted to discover more information about his cabin neighbour, but could not do so. Perhaps the family's inquiries turned up information from another source, possibly even after The Truth About the 'Titanic was written - I know the families of other victims sought information about their lost loved ones from any source they thought might have answers. I am not aware of any detailed account of Miss Isham's fate having come to light, but given the diligence of passenger researchers would not be surprised if new data does surface from a thus-far unpublished source.​
 

Bob Godfrey

Member
Nov 22, 2002
6,045
61
308
UK
Geoff, the bedroom steward who served Col Gracie and Miss Isham was Charles Cullen, who was among the survivors but unfortunately was not one of those called to give evidence at either of the Inquiries. I imagine, however, that Gracie and/or Miss Isham's family would have made contact and established at the very least that she had been on board and probably also that Cullen had not seen her on deck during the last hours.
 
Dec 2, 2000
58,631
446
453
Easley South Carolina
FWIW, the records have her as boarding in Cherbourg under ticket number 17595. The Cave list has her in Cabin C-49. Kind of hard to see how somebody would have that sort of information had she not showed up. Then there's the fact that after the Titanic, nobody ever saw her again. If she never boarded the ship and chose to use the whole affair to "disappear," she did a very good job of it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jan 10, 2006
28
0
71
So we have a ticket and records showing she boarded at Cherbourg? Yet we do not have one person who recalls seeing her, at least among those who lived. I sure wish we had some info from Charles Cullen. This woman begins to interest me very much. So what does everyone think happened to this woman, other than the obvious? I think she was indeed aboard the ship, led a private existence during the five days and was reserved to die, much like Stead, but without making any public note of it. Why go to the boat deck if one is going to die anyhow? You will just have to deal with the hustle of stewards trying to lug you into a lifeboat. Those are just my thoughts but I think Miss Isham would make a great research project!! Just some thoughts, let me know what you all think. Am I way out of the ball park here?

Geoff
 
May 12, 2005
3,109
2
163
All:

To add to the speculation, there's Helen Bishop's account of a woman in a cabin near hers being very cross with stewards for waking her on April 14. Apparently this lady shook them all off and went back to bed. It's an intriguing tale but there are problems with it as Helen was berthed on B Deck, not C, so unless Ann Isham switched cabins it isn't she whom Helen was recalling. Also Helen refers to the female in question as a "girl." Ann was 50 years old. Still, it at least offers a possible idea of how Ann may have chosen to die.

Even so, I still think it's likely that Ann did go on deck that night and was just not noticed in the crowd. The pictures that her family supplied Don Lynch for his 1991 THS article on Ann show a rather sad looking lady, sweet-faced but lacking the confidence that a woman of her class would normally reflect. I mean no disrespect but her appearance is utterly nondescript. She could easily have been forgotten and that's sad.

Don's article tells a lot about her background. She was the daughter of noted attorney Edward Isham whose law partnership was with Robert Todd Lincoln, President Lincoln's son. Her uncle was Richard Skinner, Governor of Vermont. She was the only child of her family to remain unmarried but seemed to lead a contented life of charity and club work and world travel. She and one of her sisters had inherited their father's Vermont estate but Ann chose to live in New York, Chicago and abroad. She had apparently been visiting another sister who lived in Paris when she boarded Titanic at Cherbourg.

Don interviewed Ann's family who unfortunately have not preserved the correspondence they entered into with Col. Gracie or others in connection with her death.

Ann's story may never be known and that is a real loss, not just to her family but to all of us.

Randy
 
Jan 10, 2006
28
0
71
Randy:

Thanks so much for that bit of info. I think that Miss Isham resigned to her fate that cold April night, afterall 50 was fairly "older" back in 1912. Randy, maybe she was not on the "hit list" so to speak by Gracie and other gents for the lifeboats merely because no one really knew who she was. Either way her story is fascinating and it is sad so little is known of her that night.

Geoff
 

Gary.J Bell

Member
May 30, 2004
52
0
86
One thing i just cant grasp, is why would she? why would she want to just resign herself to dying?
I mean, being a woman, and a first class one at that, she was guarenteed a place in the boats! so why not leave?
Okay 50, that was older then, but not ancient, i cant see any excuse for her not surviving.
 

Similar threads