Ismay and the speed of the Titanic


Teri Lynn Milch

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Apr 7, 2001
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Noel wrote: "A shipowner who has come up 'through the office' so to speak, would also definitively be a ship manager."

Okay thank you for clarifying this.
 
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Alyson Jones

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The speed of the Titanic scanndal.
Has any one notice that Bruce Ismay was a quiet man.Did any one read a report that one time a conversation was going on, and one man stated that he spoke to Captain Smith and so on, then he mention that "I would of spoken to Ismay if he would of spoken at some point".
Sounds like he would not not really effect Captains Smith mind about the speed.Captain Smith would of had it hard during his training when he was younger,which would made him strong will time he became Captain (i learnt it from other member).Ismay would not of made a difference at all.
Captain Smith alterd course to the longer course which was well known to captains at that time. Captain Smith did so to avoid Icebergs.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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A lot has been made of Ismay being something of a "Second Captain" hovering in the background, micromanaging the operation of the Titanic and egging Captain Smith on in terms of stomping on the gas.

Whatever the truth may be, Captain Smith needed no egging on. Liners lived and died by keeping to the schedule, so he wasn't about to slow down if he didn't have to. Getting in early would be nice, but late was intolerable. What did happen on the voyage was that the ship was gradually worked up until she had reached the point where she was running at what would have been her expected 21 knot service speed. Nothing unusual about that and absent Ismay's presence, this would have happened anyway.

>>Captain Smith alterd course to the longer course which was well known to captains at that time. Captain Smith did so to avoid Icebergs.<<

Might want to check out http://www.titanicinquiry.org/BOTInq/BOTReport/BOTRepRoute.php You'll see that Titanic's course track had nothing to do with avoiding icebergs and that the track followed was still within the zone where it was expected that ice could be encountered.
 
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Alyson Jones

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>>Whatever the truth may be, Captain Smith needed no egging on.<<

Yes. I was trying to state the same thing.I think so too.


>>You'll see that Titanic's course track had nothing to do with avoiding icebergs and that the track followed was still within the zone where it was expected that ice could be encountered.<<

Actually Smith did change way to the north route (furthest away from the ice fields) because of the icebergs.
But one of the Icebergs travlled so far that it ended up on the north route.

PS. I think North Route is the right name but i could be wrong with the name
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Alyson Jones

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What i stated myself. >>Captain Smith alterd course to the longer course which was well known to captains at that time. Captain Smith did so to avoid Icebergs.<<

Under the topic Sinking
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Titanic#Maiden_ voyage

It is from the internet, so i don't really know how truthful it is.
I did mention north but i meant south route.
 

James Smith

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Dec 5, 2001
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quote:

But one of the Icebergs travlled so far that it ended up on the north route.
It wasn't just a stray iceberg. When the sun rose over the lifeboats the next morning, Titanic's survivors saw so much ice in every direction that even Captain Rostron (of the Carpathia) was amazed that his ship had made it to the site unscathed.

--Jim​
 
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>>It is from the internet, so i don't really know how truthful it is.<<

Since it's from Wikipedia, you would do well to be very careful to treat anything they have to offer very carefully. The Mersey Wreck Commission itself doesn't support that.
 
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Alyson Jones

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Michael. I'm being careful.I did state to you,i don't know how truthful it is.
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>>It wasn't just a stray iceberg. When the sun rose over the lifeboats the next morning, Titanic's survivors saw so much ice in every direction that even Captain Rostron (of the Carpathia) was amazed that his ship had made it to the site unscathed. <<

Hi James. If that really occurred that night with icebergs every where,don't you think Titanic lookout men would of seen an iceberg much earlier.More icebergs means more of a chance of spotting the fateful disaster?
 
The lookouts barely saw the berg that they hit. How could they see any others?

Don't you think that we should trust the people who were there, though? Maybe the Titanic was the edge of an iceberg field and drifted into it when she was stopping. Or the icebergs drifted around the lifeboats during the night.

If multiple survivors and the captain of the rescue vessel all reported the amount of icebergs in the area.

I'm inclined to believe it.
 
Dec 2, 2000
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>>Hi James. If that really occurred that night with icebergs every where,don't you think Titanic lookout men would of seen an iceberg much earlier.<<

It was a very dark night with no moon out so all they had to go on was the old Mark I Eyeball. Even when adapted to the night, you would be amazed at how difficult to see something until you're right on top of it.

If you want to get a sense of just how dark it is at sea, go into a room painted black, turn out the lights, and pull a coal sack over your head. What you "see" is about as close as you can get to what the lookouts faced. Keep in mind also that the speed of the ship would have put a cold wind blasting in their faces with a windchill factor of around 14 or 15 degrees. In light of all that, it's a wonder they saw anything at all.
 

James Smith

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Incidentally, isn't David Brown's position that in all probability Titanic did see (and possibly even dodge) several other icebergs that night before finally hitting The One?

--Jim
 
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David has kicked around the possibility on several occasions. I know that he's offered and discarded a number of theories over the years so we'll just have to let him speak to where he currently stands and why.
 
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Alyson Jones

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>>survivors and the captain of the rescue vessel all reported the amount of icebergs in the area.<<

A lot can change over night.Those icebergs could of surrounded Titanic after Titanic had of sunk.
 
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Alyson Jones

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>>In light of all that, it's a wonder they saw anything at all.<<

They did, A big Iceberg.

Lookouts did spot the iceberg in time,but Titanic was a very slow ship to turn. Her ruddar was just a little bit to small for her size.If Titanic had the right equitment to removel her around, Titanic would of mist the iceberg competely.

But this belongs on another thread,this is an Bruce Ismay thread.

Michael sir. How do i do a wink?
happy.gif
 

Jason D. Tiller

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quote:

Her ruddar was just a little bit to small for her size.If Titanic had the right equitment to removel her around, Titanic would of mist the iceberg competely.
Actually, her rudder may have been the correct size. Look here

and

here.

quote:

How do i do a wink?
Type \clipart {wink} with no space in between. As I've mentioned before, refer to the 'Help/Instructions' link found at the bottom of the page for formatting info.​
 
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Alyson Jones

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Actually Titanic stern was design the same way as an 18 century sailing ship. It was not modern at all.
While the cunards ship had more of an lower stern to the sea,making it more modern.

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Thanks Jason.
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Dec 4, 2000
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A couple of things...the stern of Titanic was designed by the sea. That is, the basic shape had been refined over centuries of seafaring. It follows straight out of the "cod's head and mackerel's tail" design philosophy. It's purpose was to give the ship a smooth run aft to reduce drag (less fuel expenditure & higher speed) while still providing reserve buoyancy (the wide fantail) to prevent being boarded by an overtaking wave. Modern sterns are different to accommodate different propulsion and steering systems--but they are not necessarily "better" than Titanic's shape.

When it comes to hydrodynamics and what makes a good or bad hull design, nothing has changed since water first became wet. Just because a design is "modern" does not mean that it is necessarily a whit better -- it just may solve some problem with regard to propellers, steering apparatus, or whatever. To make an efficient ship you have to disturb the water as little as possible. Titanic had lots of steam power, but the naval architects of sailing vessels had no such luxury. They were forced to build vessels that combined low drag with acceptable cargo capacity. Some of the tea and wool clippers (e.g. Cutty Sark) were among the best hull forms ever put to sea.

Captain Charlie Weeks effectively put to bed the myth of Titanic's rudder being too small. He ran the numbers and found the size fell into line with "best practices" of the period. His findings are certainly reinforced by photos of Titanic making "S" turns which indicate a nimble turn of helm.

Finally, I have said that the conventional version of the accident makes more sense if there were two icebergs involved. However, I do not find this a satisfying solution to the many conflicts within the canonical tale.

The one thing of which I am certain is that the lookouts performed their duties admirably on that night.

-- David G. Brown
 
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>>"The one thing of which I am certain is that the lookouts performed their duties admirably on that night."<<

Very well said David.

Sometimes the best one can do is work with what they have, and if it had not been for the vigilance of Reginald Lee and Frederick Fleet, then perhaps even more lives would have been lost that night.
 
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Alyson Jones

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>>.the stern of Titanic was designed by the sea. That is, the basic shape had been refined over centuries of seafaring<<

That's my point i was trying to make. Titanic was built with the same basic shape, as ships from centuries before. Really a ship built in 1912 should of been up graded abit more.
I still think she was a marvelous ship though.
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The Stern of the Titanic was designed by men that had old fashion stern plans of 18 century sailing ship.With respect to Thomas Andrews and the other designers of the Titanic.
 

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