Sad to see what happens when neighbourhood values go down. Ilya and I visited Murdoch's old home in Southampton with another researcher last year - it would have broken Ada's heart to see it divided up into little bed-sitters, and the inevitable wear and tear of the decades. A ghost of what it was - few original features, such as the fireplaces, giving a hint of what was. The house where Moody was born was once in the most fashionable South Cliff area of Scarborough - now that terrace, too, is broken up into bed-sitters for rent. Harold Lowe's childhood home, Penrallt, is currently undergoing restoration, but it too has had a chequered history since the Lowe family lived there, serving in turn as a military hospital and as a hotel.
Even though there's some docklands restoration in the great port cities (and I live just a short walk away from the Docklands developments in London), few things are sadder than walking down past all the old shipping offices...either shut up or converted to other uses.
On that note - I understand good use has been made of the old WSL offices in Cobh? It's happened since I was there, but I gather it's now a rather good pub?
I am not happy about the sale of the Ismay house. I wish I could afford to buy it myself! I can't imagine that it would be in a bad neighborhood. The house was beautiful when it was new, but I guess history can change many things. That is sad, really sad.
This is the greatest thing about memories, they cannot lose their value....
The Ismays married in New York on December 4, 1888 and continued to live there until September of 1891. Daughter Margaret Bruce Ismay (later Mrs. Cheape) was born there on December 29, 1889 and son Bruce Ismay was born there in April of 1891. He died just two months after they moved to Cheshire, England.
Thought I might clarify one item in my post above--the "Bruce" Ismay born in New York City was really Henry Bruce Ismay. There were six Ismay children and all but daughter Evelyn Constance (later Mrs. Sanderson) were given the middle name "Bruce." There was also a son Thomas Bruce Ismay and a baby that was stillborn--and the final son was George Bruce Ismay. George's descendants live in the United States today.
Also, the Ismays lived at 440 Madison Avenue during the period 1888-1891.
So it was Margaret Ismay who married into the Cheape family? Don't suppose you know off hand which Cheape she married? Ronald seems to have been the best known of them - he played Polo for the Country but I've never found a wife for him!
So it was Margaret Ismay's sister in law, Catherine Beatrice Cheape, who became Mrs. Cay and was drowned in the Empress of Ireland disaster?
Hi Geoff, yes that is correct that it was a
sister-in-law who died in the Empress of Ireland disaster.
I've looked thru everything I have on Florence Ismay and while she makes very frequent mention of her daughter Margaret Cheape, she never once refers to Margaret's husband--strange! From the 1930's thru 1959 Margaret Cheape's address is always given as "Mrs. Cheape, 'Tiorane,' Isle of Mull, by Oban, Scotland." Beginning in 1962 and around the time of her mother's death, her address was "Mrs. Cheape, 'Duncrievie,' Glenfarg, Perthshire." Will keep searching as I have some unorganized records on Florence that might yield something on the husband. Only Margaret Cheape and Thomas Bruce Ismay outlived their mother as Mrs. Sanderson and George Bruce Ismay both died during the World War II years.
Thanks for clearing that one up! The Cheapes are still in Scotland but during the first half of the 20th Century also maintained estates in Gloucestershire, England. All of the family were excellent horsemen/women and members of the Gloucestershire Hunt.
Thank you for your incredible help, just what I was looking for!
Do I take it then that Mr. Thayer never lived in New York? Also, do you have an address for Elizabeth Lines for about 1891? I know she lived in New York until about 1899 when I presume she moved to Paris.
I don't have particulars on the movements of Mr. Thayer during that time period--have a good trail on the Lines family in later years (starting about 1904) and may or may not have something on them in the 1890's--will have to go thru some files. Recently was given some great photos of all of them--Mrs. Elizabeth Lines was not a beautiful woman but her appearance is very striking--a certain boldness and control--not to mention good breeding--is evident in her expression. Mary Lines Wellman has a softer, more matronly appearance about her. One photo in her later years bears something of a resemblance to "Aunt Bea" (for those of us old enough to remember the Andy Griffith Show).
>He (Henry Bruce Ismay) died just two months after they moved to Cheshire, England.
According to Oldham's The Ismay Line, six month old Henry became progressively more ill as the family crossed on Teutonic, and died on 1 October 1891, the day after they arrived in England. Is Oldham wrong about this?
Not sure Mark,--my source is his mother. I have several documents in which she gave a great deal of family information. In one she states that Henry Bruce Ismay was born in New York in April of 1891 and that the family returned to England permanently "in September." She then states that Henry Bruce Ismay died in November. I haven't verified those dates with vital records but Florence could have been off--she also states that her son George died in 1944 when in reality he was killed in Tunisia in 1943. The particular document is dated 1959 and Florence would already have been in her 90's so her memory may not have been at its sharpest point.
As in all such discrepancies--I'll get the goods (vital documents) and let you know.