Italians held back in real sinking

Aug 31, 2015
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Hi, I'm wondering where exactly italians were stopped from going up. Paul Maugé said in testimony: ''we have been trying to go on the second class passenger deck. Two or three stewards were there, and would not let us go.''

1. Did he mean B deck separated from 3rd Class stairs by little gate which is not on plan? Besides there are two.

Can anyone mark it on plan?

A prior Thanks!
 

Bob Godfrey

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Nov 22, 2002
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He must have been referring to the two ladders which led up from the well deck to the far end of B deck - one on each side (port and starboard). There was a low gate at the top of each ladder, with several stewards stationed behind each one.
 

Bob Godfrey

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Apart from Paul Mauge, I don't recall that any other survivor mentioned an encounter with the restaurant staff. If you read every testimony and every written account provided by survivors you MIGHT find something to identify one or more of the crewmen guarding the stairs, but I would expect that to be very unlikely.
 

Bob Godfrey

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They had nothing going for them. They weren't passengers, and there was no room for crewmen in the lifeboats unless they could be expected to have useful skills as seamen or at least rowers. And these men were not even part of the ship's crew, being employed by the restaurant chief. Also they were mostly southern Europeans, who in the prejudiced view of that time could be expected to panic and make a nuisance of themselves. So the general view would have been that they were best kept out of the way for as long as possible. As to who was given the task of restraining them, we have no way of knowing that. Possibly seamen rather than stewards. If Paul Mauge didn't specify, this must remain unknown.
 
Aug 31, 2015
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Possibly seamen rather than stewards. If Paul Mauge didn't specify, this must remain unknown.
@Bob Godfrey Paul Maugé said that they were stewards. Also I don't think that seamen would be involved in this. They had to be on the boat deck, at the lifeboat stations. It seems however, that some third class stewards were also ordered on the deck to lifeboats. If I correctly remember, three of Third Class Stewards (Sidney Edward Daniels, Alfred Pugh and James Leo Hyland) stated in letters that they were ordered to the lifeboat stations.
 
Aug 31, 2015
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@Bob Godfrey What if Steward Hart was one of Stewards who held them down? Many of people here doesn't believe his story. As example I can write following:

1. Hart left first group of passengers at Lifeboat 8, but no Steerage women and children were in that boat.

2. Paul Lee was talking about this on his site:

Titanic Greaser Frederick Scott was according to his testimony in corridors at same time, in which Hart claimed he leads the passengers in his charge, and saw no one.

This means: Either one of men said a wrong time or lied.

3. Group of men began rushing Lifeboat 15 and Hart helped to hold them back before Murdoch ordered him in. But weren't men allowed in, because there were no more women and children?

Very interesting indeed.


Now what if the men he held were italians trying to get up on B Deck? So he partly lied and put it all together? And since he knew some details he used it to his advatange?