Ivy League & Cotillions

[Cory Schaub]

Back in the Gilded Age, was the Ivy League only for the rich? Another question - in the movie, the old lady said 'an endless parade of parties and cotillions, yachts and polo matches'. I know they still have all that except, do rich people still have cotillions and debutante balls? I don't mean 'new money' like Bill Gates of Sam Walton. I mean like 'old money' so to say.

 

[Cory Schaub]

Correction--Bill Gates OR Sam Walton--and yes I know Sam Walton is no longer alive--he was just an example. I thought maybe someone might say something so...

 

[Randy Bryan Bigham]

Cory,

I'm afraid cotillions and debutante balls are no longer the "done" thing. And thank the Lord. It's too obviously "class conscious" to be PC, I guess, not to mention boring and cheesey. So only small-fry society "wannabes" would plan an entertainment like that, unless it was for an historical pageant or something.

The little town I'm from still has "teas" and old-fashioned luncheons which are so funny to me. As a reporter I've had to cover things like that and it's hard to keep a serious face when interviewing dainty little blue-hairs who think they are exhuding such grace and affording you such an honor.

I like the nostalgia of these old notions and attitudes but I can't help but think they're silly when applied to today. Not to mention hypocritical and biased.

I realize that in England it's a different story; garden parties and teas are part of the culture (at least more so than anywhere else). Plus there's so much elegant history and ambience there to justify the tradition. The same customs just seem out of place in most American cities. I think Georgia or Savannah would be the only places a "deb" could exist today and not be laughed into orbit. The old South never rid itself of balls and cotillions - I'd just hate to meet the snobs that would attend such dreary things today, wouldn't you?

Randy

 

[Bob Cruise]

These days the old blue-bloods (got that name because the ladies powdered themselves with an arsenic-based makeup which paled the skin while making the blue veins pop out) do not like to make a big deal about having money. It's ostentatious.

They've got money. They've had money. What's the big deal? It's there, used when necessary and that's that.

Besides - some of the nouveau riche actually have more millions. I think Bill Gates far outshines any name on the American Social Register (which is a lineage listing - not a millionaire listing).

A while back, there was an article in the NY Times about how the some of the rich on Park Avenue were Internet boomers. They quoted one Old Money wife as saying "They're recommending that I get hired help and telling me how to deal with it."

I went to Yale back in the seventies. Yes - there were the fifth-generation students whose families founded this country.

Some were jerks.

Some didn't have a clue.

But most were very nice and sociable as long as you dealt with them on a one-to-one basis. Laugh about school, not bucks. Compliment them on their awards, not their estates. Make 'em laugh.

Heck - I even fell in love with one!

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Randy, what the hell is a "cotillion" anyway? Is it some sort of small party or what? (You can tell I'll never be a correspondant for the society page!)

 

[Randy Bryan Bigham]

Michael,

I don't know a living soul who has been to a REAL cotillion. The word itself is archaic. I think it once was a type of dance but by Edwardian years a cotillion was a "coming out" ball for debs - in other words young ladies "of good family" being introduced to "polite Society" - yes that's with a capital "S." Even the term "coming out" doesn't mean the same thing anymore! It's a different world. No time for cotillions... sob, sob.

Randy

 

[Pat Cook]

An, while the fizz a'tha' mint julips hums in mah ear, I can still recall with we'd all retire to the verandah, 'neath the mimosa trees, and rest a spell, less'n one o'tha' ladies would come down with a case of the fantods.

Just so you don't think the cotillion is completely gone, check out this:

http://www.nljc.com

Now, kernel, I b'lieve I am next on yore program.

Y'all come back now, you hyar?
Ravenal Cook

 

[Dave Gittins]

The proper spelling is 'cotillon', the word being French. It often ended a fashionable ball in the 19th century.

The dance was led by a couple, who chose various steps from a number of known dance figures. The other couples copied them. The music consisted of common dances of the time, such as waltzes, polkas and mazurkas.

I have a feeling that it may still be found in outback Australia, along with debutante balls. Stay tuned.

 

[Dave Gittins]

Somewhat to my surprise, I didn't have to go bush to find both the cotillon (or cotillion) and debutante balls galore. There are quite a number of people who are reviving old dances, both in the city and the bush.

Deb balls seem to be held by schools, frequently church-run. Here's a recent example.

http://www.mrc.balrt.catholic.edu.au/mrc_2001_debutante_ball.htm

No comparisons with wooden ducks, please!

 

[Rosanne MacIntyre]

The south does still have debutante balls (at least North Carolina) and they are huge, expensive events. The gentleman I worked for had two daughters (unlucky for him) and it took them months to plan.

About a month before the ball, photos were published of the young ladies that were "coming out". Generally they were held in Raleigh (the
state capital where entire floors of the finest
hotel were reserved for cocktail parties) each
suite had it's own 4-5 piece string orchestra
and two days of socializing took place before the
ball. Many would arrive at the gala in horse drawn carriages.

I know the first daughter's event set him back
$40,000!! Needless to say raises were basically
cost of living increases that year!! LOL!

Rosanne MacIntyre

 

[Randy Bryan Bigham]

Dear hearts, I didn't say the cotillion - which IS a correct spelling - (http://www.dictionary.com)- was non-existent. I said in my opinion it was socially irrelevant. They are tacky, nouveau riche displays. No real aristocrat would contemplate such silliness. As I said this could only flourish in our beloved South with it's grand pretentions.

 

[Shelley Dziedzic]

The Assembly and the Steeplechase Clubs are 2 of the last Grand Bastions of the Debs' "coming out" soiree- I think they are based out of Fort Worth. Am remembering my college days in Bal'more and the white dresses of our debs. These were not so much society debs as exclusive club cotillions. The ball was at a pricey old city hotel- with all the frills- and the little gals came out on the arm of an Academy midshipman and curtsied. The last Deb of the Year I can recall who was a real stunner was CC Guest's little blonde daughter- who was Deb of the Year- Miss Cornelia. I suspect there will always be these things as long as there is polite society and aspiring mammas! Now Mistah Cook- I declaya, I jes' don' know which of you is the handsomest- you dawlin, or Mistah Geoff. But Chawles Hamilton may fetch mah dessert.

 

[Don Tweed]

An article in Life magazines' June 97' issue written by George Colt states that to graduate from Harvard you had to maintain a C- average, avoid cheating on exams and pass a two-lap swimming test. The latter test was said to be a condition stipulated by Eleanor Widener when she donated 3.5 million to build the Harry Widener Memorial Library in memory of her son, a Harvard alumnus and as we all know a victim of the tragedy.
The article states that Harvard officials spent decades denying that the swimming requirement was in any way related to the Titanic demise, and they have since dropped the requirement.

Does anyone have any more information on this quirky little tid-bit?

Reguards, Don

 

[Cory Schaub]

Bob Cruise, you mentioned the Social Register. I was wondering if that still existed as well and so it does. So Bill Gates is on it? How to I get a copy of the current Social Register? I'd be really interested to see who's on it!

 

[Shelley Dziedzic]

Cory- I was just about to mention it! Yes- it is still around and published by Forbes- sometimes I need it for my job as a wedding director. It has been published since 1886 as a "Victorian conceit" of mostly Dutch and English old families worth inviting to one's home! Sometimes I have heard it called the Blue Book- 18 major cities including Boston and New York are represented. I have collected a few of these little volumes-the Boston one is actually black and red. The new copy should be out this Fall- it is published at 381 Park Ave. S. in Manhattan. For a fabulous story all about this from the Observer- go to:

THE NEW YORK OBSERVER

The New York Observer is a Manhattan based newspaper online which features a searchable database for past articles written by, Rex Reed, Andrew Sarris, Moira Hodgson, John Heilpern, Christopher Byron, Joe Conason, and many more. The New York Observer (ISSN 1052-2948) is published weekly (except...

web.archive.org

The Brits have DeBrett's I believe.