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James Paul Moody

Discussion in 'James Paul Moody Sixth Officer' started by Cristina Sasse, Oct 25, 2002.

  1. Hi!
    Jimmy Moody is my favorite officer of the Titanic! I wish sooooo to meet him and put my a´rms around him and say:"I like you very much!"
    But I can't. Nobody can.
    My wish: If there is somebody who has more informations about Moody, please send me! My e-mail-address is: CristinaSasse@aol.com

    Thanks,
    Crissy ;))
     
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    Toma likes this.
  2. Cristina, you can find information on Officer Moody by going HERE and HERE

    Both of these sites are excellant and easily navigated.
     
  3. Ian Bland

    Ian Bland Member

    Hello Chrissy and Michael

    Chrissy
    You can look back at postings on this site about James Moody. I am also interested in James and live in Yorkshire where James was born. My daughter was also born in Grimsby which was where James lived when he died. In my opinion he was one of the heroes of the Titanic disaster.
     
  4. Inger Sheil

    Inger Sheil Member

    Writing the date here at work, I noticed that we’ve ticked around to the 21 August again - the 116th anniversary of the birthday of James Paul Moody in 1887.

    It seems appropriate to note the date, given the recent calumny he has been subjected to based on shoddy research, methodology and speculation, and deliberate attempts to edit him out of the proactive role he took during the latter stages of the evacuation. Those responsible for this distortion of history are people who have never made the slightest effort to research or understand his background - a pity, as had they done so, they might then have realised how outré some of their claims or speculation about his past and mindset are.

    But to take a more positive note…James Moody - Jim to his shipmates - was a man who had faced early setbacks in life that had never diminished his natural optimism or resilience. He was remembered long after his death for his mischievous sense of humour, and he exhibited throughout his life a great tenacity and dedication to duty. Although the career he pursued was not of his own choice, he commendably said that he was proud to be doing honest work, and would have rather ‘gone crossing sweeper’ (and some of you know what that job was!) than sponge off his family.

    I’ve seen it suggested elsewhere that men did not celebrate their birthdays in the Edwardian age. Not so in the case of James Moody, who wrote cheerfully from one of his ships that, as his birthday was flanked by those of one of the other mates and an engineer, they were expecting a lively few days of celebration.

    There are many lively, engaging characters that emerge from the Titanic disaster, but none more so, IMHO, than the youngest of the deck officers. The character he demonstrated throughout his life, and not just during the sinking of the Titanic until he was last seen at A still working at the lifeboats, are inspirational. In spite of the sadness of his early end, and resisting the temptation to maudlin sentamentality, there's something very uplifting amidst all the poignancy of his premature death.

    And to think - he should have been in Paris when the Titanic sailed, kicking up his heels with his American friend. 'We can't have big ships and holidays', he wrote with a smile.

    "What a lot has happened since then, and what a distance I have covered." - JPM, 1908
     
    Toma likes this.
  5. Heya!

    I was wondering if James was friends with any of the deck crew? Officers, Phillips and Bride, Quartermasters, etc. Have any of you come across letters he sent which spoke of any of them?

    Oo! Do any of you know when he left Oceanic for Titanic? Would he have had time to go gallivanting around Southampton or visiting friends?

    Christa
     
  6. Inger Sheil

    Inger Sheil Member

    Moody had a high regard for Lightoller, considered Phillips to be 'a great pal', and mentions them both in his letters. He may also have enjoyed a good relationship with Pitman (his correspondence doesn't indicate either way). I have come across tantalising suggestions that he might have struck up a particular rapport with one of the colleagues he sailed with for the first time on the Titanic, but can't confirm this.

    He didn't have much time for 'gallivanting' (or going on the 'rah-tah', or 'make things hum' - phrases he used) in Southampton after going to Belfast join the Titanic. When the Oceanic was laid up by the coal strike he did manage to make at least one visit to a friend who lived in a village outside Southampton itself.

    Hope this is of assistance.
     
    Toma likes this.
  7. Inger, you've been great! Thanks a lot! It's those certain phrases that make these people seem real and more alive. I'm trying to get an idea of what all of the officers were like as people (I'm convinced that they're nothing like their stern photos!).

    If you have any more interesting information I'd be really obliged!

    Christa
     
  8. Inger Sheil

    Inger Sheil Member

    Hallo Christa - I got your email, and will answer it when I get a moment to focus on it. As for your points above - you're quite right that their characters belie some of the more aloof or stern photo images we have of them. Fortunately there are some other photos in private collections that give a better sense of their characters.

    Boxhall was a rather quiet, cerebral man - very taciturn and by nature softly spoken. He seems to have had a very healthy social life, however, and many warm friends - at the time of his retirement and after, he counted among them some of the most senior figures in both WSL and Cunard. Apparently he wrote terribly amusing and interesting letters. He was also very tenacious in his own, understated way - once while in sail he suffered an injury when a heavy sea crashed over the deck. He got up and finished his watch before seeking medical attention. His persistance in certain matters during and after the Titanic disaster also points to this tenacity. He was very gentle and loved children and animals, and he and his wife had some adored cockerspaniels after they retired. He had an excellent relationship with his nieces and great nieces and nephews, all of whom still refer with tremendous affection to 'Uncle Joe'. There's a wonderful photograph of him playing on the lawn with one of his great-nieces who had built a cubbyhouse out of sheets and chairs. One family member likened him to a teddybear.

    Harold Lowe had a touch of the authoritarian to his character. His household was extremely well disciplined, even down to the family pets. But he had a wonderful sense of humour, although he wasn't inclined towards loud guffaws of laughter. He adored his children, and his photo albums are filled with shots of them playing around on holidays, or on his boats, or at important family events. A total abstainer and very proud of the fact, he never interfered with anyone else's personal choice in the matter. Looking at his terms as a local Councillor, one gets a sense of how frustrated he could become with delays and pfaffing about (as only local government can!) and would often move or second a motion to get things going. He had a profound respect for his wife and her capabilites, and was always the first to acknowledge the contributions of the spouses of other councillors to their work. Although he took his profession very seriously, he evidently wasn't adverse to a bit of fun while at sea - his albums have many photos from the up to the 20s of young women on the bridge wearing officers coats and caps and posing with telescopes etc. There's a great photo of him in fancy dress with a young woman in a matching costume, obviously on their way to attend the obligatory fancy dress party on board. Lowe enjoyed photography, and showed an interest in all the people that sailed aboard his ships, from elderly immigrants to young families on holiday. He also enjoyed snapping other ships (from the Olympic to the Aquitania as they passed) and shore scenes, and seems to have had a tremendous interest and curiousity in the world around him. Again, he's another man who had a great affinity with animals. There are photos of him with the pet dog he was particularly close to and - surprisingly - many of him with kittens, or the children with kittens, or just plain kittens. One entertaining photo shows him in uniform talking to some of his colleagues, while clutched high up to his chest is a tiny ball of fur...obviously the image of the professional mariner cradling a kitten tickled someone's fancy and they took the shot! He sense of individualism was highly developed, and is evident even in his correspondence concerning dry legal matters. He also enjoyed literature and wasn't a bad singer.

    Pitman I've always found a bit harder to grasp, atlhough I've read some of his letters and postcards, visited the areas in Somerset where he grew up and where he retired, and have seen many photos and heard the odd anecdote. It intrigues me that this man came so far from the farmlands where his family had worked for generations, travelled the world, and then went right back home. There have been dark insinuations made about his courage given his decision not to return for suvivors when the Titanic sank, and yet he served in two World Wars and was decorated for his part. In order to succeed as a purser in the passenger trade with WSL he must have had considerable personal charm of character. Lightoller seems to have relied upon him quite a bit in the wake of the disaster as well.

    James Moody was very warm, gregarious, bright and humourous. He also had an element of 'toughness' that is often not recognised or acknowledged - possibly because of his youth and pleasant disposition, there seems to be a sense that he was somehow 'soft'. He wasn't. He had a very shrewd, practical side to his nature. A sense of mischief in him was recalled by those who knew him, and it comes through in letters and anecdotes that indicate a rather cheeky, irreverent element to his make up. Moody quite enjoyed gossip (he loved the murder and divorce columns) and had a keenly developed sense of adventure that led him to try everything from going down pitch dark mine shafts in Chile to rollerskating. Once again, he was an animal lover (as was all his family) from the puppy he had as a small child that his mother wrote he loved 'very much' to the ship's cats that he took an interest in. He was a talented writer, and not only wrote very entertaining and keenly observed letters, but also short stories. He cared deeply for his siblings, and maintained a very close relationship with them and other family members in spite of the fact that his career took him so far from home. He was looking forward to that summer on the Atlantic.

    These are all fairly random fragments, but I hope they convey some sense of who these men were outside of the uniform and the job...will write more when I email you.
     
    Toma likes this.
  9. Hello again Inger!

    You simply can't imagine my delight when I read your reply! I was just about to log off then thought I'd check my emails.

    You are a well of information! I hope you do publish a book or something! You must have spent so long researching everyone. I'm stuck because the only resources that I have access to are the internet and books. The internet is only useful to me now through this website and books are hard to get hold of.

    Joseph Boxhall sounds like he doesn't complain about much. If I was injured the whole ship would know about it! I was very interested to note that his ashes were scattered over the site where he calculated Titanic sank. I'm intrigued at his reasoning as not many of the survivers did this. I wonder who he missed the most...

    I have read some of Charles Lightoller's book Titanic and other Ships and the pranks he gets up to are so much fun! I think that he (or maybe Capt Smith) would have known Murdoch the best and it would have been great to have him tell stories about everyone. If you have read his book he mentions an Australian woman who enjoys their pranks as much as they do, have you read it? I understand he 'white-washed' over some things in his testimony and although this makes accessing the truth harder I find that a touch of loyalty to the people he served with and the ship herself.

    Harold Lowe grabs my attention because he can be rather fiery which kinda makes you think uh-oh but then you hear stories like that one of the women on deck in officer's uniforms which endear him! The photo with the kitten would imply that he has a soft side too - how fun to have been privileged to see that side of him!

    While Harold and Charles grab my attention the most (Will Murdoch too) it's definitely James that sparks my interest the most. I'm entranced with your note that he was a talented writer because I hope to make that my occupation if I'm good enough. Do you know what he wrote about? He must have been a deep thinker to be a writer! Are there any examples you can give of the shrewd, practical side of his nature? I'm not too sure what you mean by that.

    I can't grasp Pitman either yet but seeing as I believe he must have had a good reason for not going back (maybe the same one as why Lowe waited before going back). Even if the reason is that he was scared, which I'm not sure would have stopped him, who are we to challenge his courage in adversity? I tell you if an unsinkable ship had just sank below me I can't say I'd be feeling the bravest either!

    Do you know what the Titanic Officers did once they boarded the Carpathia? Especially over the few days leading to arriving at New York. I understand one of them was cornered by the passengers, do you know who this was and why they were cornered?

    I found your site ON WATCH brilliant! It holds a wealth of information and I feel like I've won the lottery every time I go on there. However the only people I can access are Phillips, Moody, and Wilde. Is there any news on when the others will be up and running?

    Thank you SO much! I'll refrain from asking any more questions in this message and quit going on.

    Christa Erin Pereira.
     
  10. Inger Sheil

    Inger Sheil Member

    Hallo again Christa - I'll try to work through some of the points and questions you raised.

    His niece feels that Joseph Boxhall never really got over the Titanic disaster. He did speak to colleagues about it, and ocassionally to his favourite sister, but it wasn't generally discussed. She was very surprised when he agreed to her suggestion for him to participate in the making of the movie ANTR. He seems to have found it something of a cathartic experience, and actively helped promote the movie in newspapers. Afterwards he talked more openly with researchers such as Reade and Marcus, gave a BBC radio interview and spoke publicly in other media. His decision to have his ashes scattered at the wreck site is seen by his family as confirmation of just how deeply the event affected him. I don't know if he was very close to anyone besides Lightoller before he sailed (among his fellow officers, at least, Lightoller was the only one he knew pre-Titanic), but there are hints that he got along very well with at least one other colleague who was lost.

    I agree with you and thoroughly enjoyed Lightoller's book - he wasn't alone in his appreciation for Aussie women, either! Boxhall was involved in a love affair with a young woman that ended badly (although Boxhall forgave her and remained friends with her for many decades afterwards, indicative of the man's character). Murdoch also had at least one Australian girl he was friendly with, although he married a New Zealander (as did Pitman). Murdoch, from the scanty information available, seems to have been very well through of by his fellow officers and the rest of the crew. Although he hadn't met him before joining the Titanic, Moody wrote that he had heard good reports of him.

    Harold Lowe is intriguing - while certain incidents during the loading of the boats give an impression of a fiery character, those who knew him have told me that he was actually an extremely calm, collected, cool headed man. One said Lowe was one of the most even-tempered men he ever knew. The photos certainly do reveal a gentler, even playful side to his character.

    One example of a short story written by James Moody that I've transcribed features a fictional hero's adventures in South American ports - a bit of an alter ego for him, with events taking place in a setting he knew well. There's a terribly soft romantic side to the story I'm thinking of - the sort of sentimentality when writing about romantic love that would fit in very well with the pulp magazines he read!

    When it came to pursuing his career and finances Moody was very practical indeed - he kept an eye on money, had his will made out as soon as he turned 21 and took out life insurance. He made sure he had savings, and even when splurging somewhat (at one point he went on holidays, spent virtually all his money and then had to sell his old sextant) he still had money secreted away in a building society. While serving as Chief Officer on a tramp he was able to keep things ticking over even when the Captain disappeared for several days at a time without leaving him any instructions as to how to deal with either the crew, the loading, or the company men coming aboard. Experiences in late childhood and his teens had left him with a decent sense of self-reliance and self-preservation.

    I've got a decent idea of some of the things the Titanic's officers did once they were aboard Carpathia. You've probably heard how Boxhall, first to be brought aboard, reported to Rostron? In addition to certain duties they were asked to assist the Cunard officers with regarding the running of the ship, they also helped with survivors. Their first night aboard, Bissett found them all up very late, unable to sleep, and sat down and talked with them as they went over what had happened. Most of them spoke to survivors - Lowe in particular spent a good deal of time going among the survivors and chatting with them, and there are quite a few people who mention speaking with him. Boxhall was beginning to develop the Pleurisy that afflicted him at the inquiry, but Lightoller and Pitman inspected the Titanic lifeboats that were brought aboard and spoke to passengers. Were you perhaps thinking of the account in Beesley that mentions the passengers confronted an officer to find out if rumours about the prior warnings of ice ahead were true? I don't think we know who it was who asked. Other conversations between crew and passengers took place where we don't know the identity of the officer - Stengel spoke to one, for example.

    I'm so glad you enjoyed 'On Watch'. I've been very busy lately wrapping up some research and finishing the initial draft(s) for the manuscript of the Lowe biography (which answers another question - yes, I am working on a book), but am hoping to put up a couple of additions to the site once things have settled down a bit. The Boxhall bio sketch is just about done, as is Lowe.
     
    Toma likes this.
  11. Hello Inger! Thanks for replying so promptly!

    The more I read about Joseph Boxhall the more I like him, it's rather sad to think that he was so affected by it (though one can hardly blame him!). But then, if he had made a new friend whom he subsequently lost it would make the healing process even harder.
    He must have been really nice if he was friends with a former lover for a long time afterwards! I wonder what his wife thought of this!

    The officers must have liked Aussie women because they were more accustomed to fun in the way that sailors were (is that too much of an assumption?). I am in staunch opposition to the idea that they were one dimensional discipline sticklers and revel in the thoughts of mischief that I hear them engaging in!

    Murdoch also seems quite close to his family (they all do, except for Lowe of course). I read the letter he said to his sister, Peg, and he is notes concern for his mothers welfare. It must be hard leaving family behind for the officers, especially their poor wives. And what about Jack Phillips who left his fiance behind? It makes you think twice about the men today who go off to war...

    You would think that Lowe was rather collected because he knew what it was he wanted of himself and others. However, there is a passion in him (demonstrated by his love of the people on board and the world in general) that suggests to me that that calm could be overridden by this passion. What do you think?

    You'd think that James wouldn't have had much time for writing (did they have much free time on board or did they sleep every chance they could get - even in the day?).

    ***There's a terribly soft romantic side to the story I'm thinking of - the sort of sentimentality when writing about romantic love that would fit in very well with the pulp magazines he read!***

    What do you mean by this? What makes you think that there is a soft romantic side? Also, what do you mean by 'pulp' magazines?

    He sounds very practical indeed with regards to money. Where would you go on holidays if you were a sailor? I suppose that you'd have lots of choices, you could work on the ship to on place, jump off and party for a while before getting on another ship and working your way home!
    Also what is a sextant (I'm thinking that it's a piece of navigational equipment).
    When you say secreted away in a building society does that mean that he invested it?

    He sounds rather hardy and capable if he could deal with basically captaining a ship for days at a time. This characteristic must have been noted by the WSL interviewer!

    Thanks for the info on what the officers did onboard the Carpathia. There is very little on this. Yes, I did hear about Boxhall reporting to Rostron, this reflected a bit of his emotion as he reported how many he thought were lost. After being so strong for so long (he would have had to be supportive to the other passengers, his nature supports it and in addition he was an officer) he would have had a hard time staying strong.
    I would have hated to be Lightoller - the most senior officer after a sinking would place a ridiculous amount of stress on you!
    I think it was Lawrence Beesley that I'm thinking of - all the information muddles sometimes.
    I think it's a bit rough, making them assist with the Carpathia's run, yet I heard there was no idea of post-traumatic stress back then. Plus, I severely doubt that they would have just hung around for four days.

    When you said the Pitman was a great support to Lightoller after the sinking, how so? Was it just on the Carpathia or throughout the inquiries all the way back to Britain? When the officers sailed back to England were they on duty or passengers?

    I hope you include the effect on the officer/s after the titanic sank in your book (if this is what your book is about). I find that there is so much information from Sunday 11pm to Monday 2:30am and anything preceding or following is lost. I can't wait to read the Boxhall and Lowe biographies, I bet you have fun researching them!

    Well, best go and reply to your e-mail, thanks again!

    Christa.
     
  12. >>The officers must have liked Aussie women because they were more accustomed to fun in the way that sailors were (is that too much of an assumption?)<<

    Not always! wink.gif
     
  13. Inger Sheil

    Inger Sheil Member

    G'day again Christa -

    I've often wondered what Boxhall's wife thought about his continued contact with his former fiance as well. Quite possibly she didn't know about it - the rest of his family only found out about it a few years back. The woman in question had gone on to have an unhappy marriage that ended in seperation, and her son was to say she would probably have been a much happier woman had she married the gentle Joe Boxhall. Boxhall did visit her at least once in later life.

    LoL! Racy Aussie girls and sailors, eh? It's that Antipodean sunshine and outdoors life that gives us an extra bold forthrightness. Or the fact we're descended from a bunch of convicts. Not sure...

    In general they seem to have been fond of the people, not just the pretty young things (although I'm sure that they were somewhere at the top of the list) - Moody throughly enjoyed Newcastle, NSW as an apprentice because he was taken in by a family there. Lowe also enjoyed Sydney, and one of his greatest friends was a Sydneysider.

    I suspect that Lowe worked very hard at self-discipline his entire life. His father was a somewhat bohemian figure, and it may have been in part a reaction against that. He was also extremely ambitious, and had to apply himself to the climb from the forecastle with all his focus, concentration and discipline.

    Although Lowe ran away from home to go to sea, the schism with his family was not of long duration - he was already back to using Penrallt as a shore address by 1900. While they had their ups and downs he remained fairly close to his family, and his father and sister Ada were there to meet him in Liverpool when he arrived back home on the Adriatic after the Titanic disaster. By the time of his father's death, Harold was his father's executor and spent quite a few years sorting out the details of the estate and managing things for his siblings. Even at their father's funeral, it was Harold who loaned money against their eventual inheritance to a couple of his siblings so that they could buy suits to wear and/or send wreaths. 'Commander Lowe' seems to have taken over the role of Lowe clan patriarch after his father's death - partly this is to be expected as he was the eldest surviving son, but it's also indicative of the organised, motivated and strongwilled figure he was, and his deep concerns for his family.

    It depended on where Moody was as to whether he had much time to write. Sometimes he could scratch out nothing but a postcard, sometimes they spent long weeks taking aboard cargo in South American ports (he thoroughly enjoyed this when he first went into steam, as it meant all he had to do was sit there and tally cargo as it came aboard, eating large quantities of fresh fruit and 'swearing at the bosun to liven the men up'.) Some letters were written during off watches in his bunk when he was half asleep, others when he was ashore between voyages before they put to sea again, and some from his comfortable cabin on the Oceanic.

    The 'soft romantic side' I was mentioned to was a componant of the short story he wrote. I was trying to put it in a more pleasant way than to say that he wrote some terribly syrupy stuff, as was the popular style of the time for that particular genre. I suspect he may have been aiming for a particular market, as give the practical, no nonsense and rather humourous tone of his letters, it's hard to reconcile it with the young hero gazing with calf-eyes on the heroine of the tale as she stamps a dainty little foot while the melodrama unfolds around them (she won't marry the devious mate who is manipulating her father, the captain!). Judging from his letters, the magazines of the era (he doesn't specify titles, but we're probably looking at Collier's et al) were a staple part of his reading diet. They were crammed full of little melodramas, spirited young women and decent, solid sort of chaps who got them out of scrapes.

    Holidays often consisted of visiting family and friends, either at their homes or in places like London. He did get back to Scarborough with members of his family, although by then the only family member still there was an Uncle. A sextant is a piece of nautical equipment (from Websters: An instrument for measuring angular distances between objects, -- used esp. at sea, for ascertaining the latitude and longitude. It is constructed on the same optical principle as Hadley's quadrant, but usually of metal, with a nicer graduation, telescopic sight, and its arc the sixth, and sometimes the third, part of a circle.)

    The book is a full length biography about Harold Lowe. As the draft now stands, I have included some material about how each of the surviving officers reacted to the disaster in order to put Lowe's responses in the context of how his peers responded. Whether all of it will make the final cut is another question!

    Phew...now there's another long ramble all over the map...I'd better dry up and let someone else have a turn!
     
  14. G'day Inger,

    I'm a bit dubious about Boxhall's motives for continuing contact with his fiance (although it is a lovely thing to do)

    From what I've read they did seem to enjoy the Aussie run although I would have thought the change in temperature would have been a bit much.

    Imagine growing up with a bohemian father! How cool would that be!

    James' stories sound a little like Indiana Jones crossed with Mills and Boon! Your attempt at putting it in a 'nice pleasant way' was dashed by my curiosity - sorry, but now I have a REALLY GOOD IDEA of what you mean! LoL!

    He seems to be a guy with no home yet with many homes. I wonder if he ever just wanted to stay in one place or come home to one place.

    Your book sounds great, can't wait to read it!

    Just one last thing that I asked before but I've been stewing it over in my mind for a while and now I'm really interested.
    When you said the Pitman was a great support to Lightoller after the sinking, how so? Was it just on the Carpathia or throughout the inquiries all the way back to Britain? When the officers sailed back to England were they on duty or passengers? "

    Thanks heaps,

    Christa.
     
  15. Inger Sheil

    Inger Sheil Member

    LoL! As far as I know there was no real ulterior motive for Boxhall staying in contact with his ex beyond friendship, although one never knows.

    I think they were quite accustomed to changes in heat and extraordinarily physically tough men, given their experiences particularly during their early days in sail (although Moody does mention feeling the cold quite a bit when returning to England after spending 18 months without, he said, so much as a cool day).

    Growing up with his artist father had a few drawbacks, as Harold Lowe would attest, but I'll elaborate on that at another time.

    There's certainly a touch of Mills & Boon in the short story, but his male protagonist is not quite proactive enough to put him in the Indiana Jones class! He's generally tough talking and streetwise, or tries to be, but then comes across as a curiously passive figure - he lets himself be led into a situation that he knows - or should know - is highly dangerous, but...well...the sun is shining, and girl is so pretty, that how could one possibly imagine anything nefarious happening?

    The 'no home yet with many homes' is certainly an apt description of much of his life. He had extended family that welcomed him when he came to visit, and as he reassured someone close to him in one letter he had plenty of places to go to when he was in England. Towards the end of his life he did work at establishing a home with one of his brothers as he didn't think it fair to impose on the family in St James' House. In one letter he was chasing after some sketches for the walls of the new abode.

    I think what I wrote about Pitman was that 'Lightoller seems to have relied upon him quite a bit in the wake of the disaster' - I don't want to overstate the evidence on this point, as researchers have a very bad habit of extrapolating too much from too little data. However, we do see Pitman's name crop up in connection with Lightoller's more than once when it is apparent they are working together - it was the two of them who spoke to Gracie, for example (Pitman and Gracie had met each other before the Titanic voyage), and Lightoller mentioned to Beesley in a letter in response to Beesley's newspaper pieces in the wake of the disaster that the Pitman had assisted him in inspecting the lifeboats. It's interesting that there's a photograph of the two of them together in Liverpool in conversation. Pitman would be a natural choice - he was the next most senior officer, they had known each other and worked together prior to joining the Titanic, Boxhall was coming down with what would turn out to be quite a severe illness, and Harold Lowe was the most junior and least known to Lightoller - something of an outsider.

    Hope this helps - I'm running around a bit, but will hopefully get to your email before I head off for the weekend. You're offering a terrible temptation to talk about some of my favourite subjects!
     
  16. From your description of Boxhall's character I doubt he would intentionally have an ulterior motive yet I can't help thinking that he WAS a sailor and I think his fiance would have been attracted to his softer side (and because of that softer side he'd be nice to her)...LoL! Don't worry about me! My mind's ridiculously running away with me again!

    James' male protagonist definitely does sound like the passive side of him. I wonder if he was trying to portray a side of him that he thought wasn't really noticed by others.

    *He's generally tough talking and streetwise, or tries to be, but then comes across as a curiously passive figure - he lets himself be led into a situation that he knows - or should know - is highly dangerous, but...well...the sun is shining, and girl is so pretty, that how could one possibly imagine anything nefarious happening? *

    I loved your description here! Laughed myself silly because I can just see him reasoning that out! LoL!

    He must have been close to his brother to set up a home with him! Mind you if he would rather 'save an argument' then he might let his brother get his way. But then he was the baby of the family so going up against his big brother could be hazardous!

    The more I read about his extended family the more I feel that he was soooo lucky! Apart from the death of his mother, he had it pretty good it seemed. Well, except for it not being his choice to be an Officer. Do you have any ideas of what his career might have been if he'd chosen it?

    I understand what you mean about overstating the evidence and will try not to let my imagination run away with me (again - yes yes I know!).

    I think I've seen the photo of the two of them talking in Liverpool. How long was poor Boxhall down and out for? I looked up Pleurisy and it turns out that the medication involved is antibiotics and such. Would he have had to go to hospital? Mind you, it couldn't have been too bad because he did decline the offer of a seat at the inquiry (I can't remember which one).

    You said that Lowe was an outsider, did he make friends with anyone aboard the Titanic? (Hah! This will test your memory for your book!). Did all of the junior officers travel from Southampton to Belfast together?

    Thanks a lot! Try not to run yourself out. You've got me on my favorite topic and it's hard not to blurt everything out at once!

    Christa.

    P.S. This is a ridiculously stupid thing to say seeing as you've been doing research for so long but if you need a hand or anything just ask. Just so you know, the offer's open. happy.gif
     
  17. Inger Sheil

    Inger Sheil Member

    I'm a bit cautious about going into the various family relationships, as it's not really my place to speak about them out of respect for the families involved. It was quite a complex situation, but yes - there were many who loved James Moody and who were deeply affected by his short life and early death. One of the most touching things I've read was a letter from a family friend who attended the unveiling of the Memorial Lighthouse in NY a year after the disaster. This individual wrote to Moody's family and sent copies of the order of service not, they stressed, because they wanted to reopen the pain, but because they wanted his siblings to see that 'dear old Jim' had been 'fittingly honoured again' for his 'lovely and beautiful life'.

    With many of the figures involved in the disaster we don't get to see the grief that their loss meant for those left behind, and we can only imagine it. With James Moody there are quite a few flickers of that tremendous sadness that many felt at his passing - even in the midst of the Great War, with so much other tragedy happening in the world, an altar set was donated in his name to St Augustines.

    I don't know what he would have chosen as a career had it been left up to him. He seems to have become more comfortable at sea as he went on - he says something along those lines when he was aboard the last ship he served on before joining the WSL - and so might have stayed at sea for a while, although it is the opinion of his closest living relative that had he lived he would have eventually left the sea. I wonder what he would have done in WWI - joined the RNR, or perhaps even signed up with his brothers in the infantry?

    I don't know how long Boxhall was down with pleurisy. He was doing some work on the Carpathia and was able to testify for one day in Washington, although I wonder what sort of shape he was in physically at that point. It has been noted that his voice was so soft he had to be asked repeatedly to speak up and he had his hands held together to prevent a tremour, and I wonder if it was more illness than nervousness (although he was habitually quite soft spoken and fairly taciturn). He was unable to resume his testimony the next day, and a doctor's note had to be produced for him:
    He wasn't able to resume his testimony until the 29 April, a week later. It was at the British inquiry he refused the offer of a chair.

    Boxhall seems to have quite a few illnesses - in his early records he had a few months off due to sickness, and I've seen references him being ill in correspondence.

    Lowe does not seem to have made any real friends among his colleagues on the Titanic, although he did among some of the surviving passengers. I was rather amused by a letter from a friend he made at the American Inquiry who asked him to pass on regards to Lightoller, Boxhall and Pitman when he saw them. He may have got along well with Assistant Surgeon Simpson who seems to have been a very gregarious individual - there's little direct evidence, but at least he recognised Simpson when the surgeon approached him on the boat deck and gave him an electric torch, and later told Simpson's sister about the exchange.

    Thank you very much for the generous offer of assistance - I may take you up on it. Your instincts are spot on, you're asking the right questions and making some very good connections...I'm always glad of offers of help, as it would be sheer arrogance to pretend I don't need and couldn't use assistance!​
     
  18. Heya Inger,

    Don't sweat about the family relationships stuff. I'm being lazy at the moment, I can find out births, deaths and marriages with my genealogy resources but uni work is piling up and i don't have much time.

    That was a nice thing for the family friend to do, he must have loved the family a lot. Especially risking the overwhelming sadness they would have felt.

    Do you feel sad when you read some stuff about him? I do. It's like you totally rejoice in this persons life but all it does is make you understand more the pain felt by those who loved him. And I'm sure that James would have been devastated to leave them all (yet perhaps delighted to see his mum - if he was religious).

    Sometimes I'm kinda glad that he didn't have to see world war one (or two) and go to war. So many people died then that I doubt he would have survived and I'm sure the pressure would have dampened his optimism. But then, he would have had a wonderful life while he was alive.

    Well, that was a very depressing conversation.

    Thanks for the info on Boxhall and Lowe. Lowe sounds like a very unpretentious character. Why were you amused that the friend asked him to pass on his regards to Lightoller, Boxhall and Pitman when he saw them?

    Quick questions:
    Did James (or any of the officers) speak a different language - swearing aside! - ? I would have thought so because of them travelling so much.
    What do you mean when you said that they swore at the men? I don't mean to entice you to swear but I am a little confused as I'm sure cursing in 1912 was different to 2003. Lowe was in trouble for saying 'hell' to Ismay.
    I'm intrigued at this 'wordy skirmish' James talks about. Did they exchange punches and emerge with bruises? I would have thought that James was the younger and would have been at a disadvantage, yet he was tall wasn't he.

    Thank you for your compliments. I really enjoy talking to you and look forward to your replies. You implied that you were 'off for the weekend'. Have a great time and rest a bit if you can!

    Talk to you later,

    Christa.

    P.S. what was James' puppy's name?
     
  19. Inger Sheil

    Inger Sheil Member

    Hallo Christa -

    Yes, I do feel sad when reading of his early death. In a sense, he - like many other young crewmen of the ship - has become associated for me with the dead of WWI. No direct connection other than a chronological proximity, but there's that poignancy of duty and premature death (although the compare/contrast issues there are a paper in and of themselves!). But he crammed much more living into 24 years than many people do in a lifespan three or four times as long.

    He did at least once make a reference to the fact that he believed his mother, wherever she was, was aware of what he was doing with his life, and that it was as possible to please her where she was as if she was alive.

    Harold Lowe spoke fluent Welsh and a bit of Russian - I suspect most of them knew a few words in languages they'd picked up along the way, particularly given the multinational crews they sailed with. Moody wasn't specific with what 'swear' words he used - I think Lowe gives a fairly good idea in his testimony. Probably not quite the range of obscenities that are common today (even if most of our worst words are very old indeed, and certainly pre-date the Edwardian era!).

    There was no physical contact as far as I can tell in the 'wordy skirmish' - it seems to have been purely a verbal bout. Sorry I don't know the name of the puppy. Had a lovely weekend, thank you very much - I did manage to come back with a touch of a cold, but it was extremely pleasant to get out of London for a few days. Now I'm playing catch-up with posts and emails.

    All the best,

    Inger
     
  20. G'day G'day!

    Firstly, I'm glad you enjoyed your weekend. It is nice to get out of London sometimes. When I was there I felt claustrophobic because I wasn't used to having so many tall buildings around me all the time. I found my refuge in Norfolk although the North wind chilled me to the bone!

    I've been thinking that being presented with so much information has caused me to not appreciate as much what I am being told so I took a break to mull over it all. These are my musings:

    You said there is no mention of any scuffle with regard to the 'wordy skirmish'. This says an enormous amount about James' character. If he did try to avoid arguments as you said then for this 'skirmish' to have come about there must have been a great number of incidents that lead up to it (with regard to the mate in question being a bully!). This quite possible would have caused an emotional build up on James' part (esp if he didn't say anything about it previously). And the fact that there was no physical violence despite this anger is commendable (unless the guy deserved a good decking!). James must have had a very strong influence who taught him not to fight. It takes a greater strength of character not to deck the horrid man than to make him kiss the floor. This presence of influence is a direct reflection of a member (or several members) of his family.
    Of course, a sense of duty would also have impacted this reason not to punch the mate's lights out but I think at the stage it was at duty wasn't high on the list. Which leads me to think that James (although very dutiful) valued something higher than that. Maybe friendship, maybe human rights, maybe even self respect. Which makes me think why did he stick by his duty even on the Titanic? Maybe it was because of the points above. Or maybe - even though it was implied that he was not keen on going to sea - it was because he gave his word (by signing the engagement document at the commencement of each journey). Or because he was so intent on having his mother (or other family members) be proud of him.

    Of course, on the other hand, if he had decked the mate he probably would have gotten court marshalled or something like that wouldn't he?

    Tell me, am I making a mountain out of a molehill or is there some justification in my point? I do have a tendency to let my mind fly before it has the authority to take off! I'm just trying to understand the mindset here.

    Get over your cold quickly (unless you score sick days with it!),

    I totally agree on your 'poignancy of duty and premature death point'. A sense of duty is a really strong feeling and choice and I think it would take enormous courage to carry out.

    I hope his believe about his mother was some comfort to him when he knew that he was going to go down with the Titanic. Maybe he thought that he'd see her again.

    Well, have a rest and get over that cold.

    Christa.

    P.S. For the first time in my life I've actually thought about what the phase to 'deck' someone really means! happy.gif
     
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