Jealousy of Captain Smith ?

S

ScottyBK

Member
I'd assume Smith made considerably more $$$ than Rostron and a LOT more than Stanley Lord. I'm talking just base salary here. Rostron I assume got a huge raise after the Titanic rescue and was the new toast of the town, but not sure if he became the new "Millionaire's Captain" the way Smith had been. Rostron didn't look too much like a captain, no beard or anything. Without the Titanic rescue on his resume he maybe wouldn't have done so well.
 
Seumas

Seumas

Member
I am curious how you came to that figure, Seumas. According to my notes, he left £3,186, 4s, 6d, which based on the Bank of England inflation calculator would equal £254,083.86 in 2021 (the calculator uses Consumer Price Index inflation data). But I might have that wrong!
I used measuringworth.com who use the Retail Price Index. Their answer for £3,186, 4s 6d was £335,600. They also offered an alternative of £354,000 using the GDP Deflator.

One thing we can at least agree on is that Edward Smith although living very comfortably was most definitely not a millionaire or a member of the aristocracy.

I'd assume Smith made considerably more $$$ than Rostron and a LOT more than Stanley Lord. I'm talking just base salary here. Rostron I assume got a huge raise after the Titanic rescue and was the new toast of the town, but not sure if he became the new "Millionaire's Captain" the way Smith had been. Rostron didn't look too much like a captain, no beard or anything. Without the Titanic rescue on his resume he maybe wouldn't have done so well.
Scotty, what exactly are you getting at here with the money angle ?

Are you suggesting that some that the motivation behind some decisions taken by Edward Smith, Stanley Lord and Arthur Rostron on the night of April 14/15th ?

New theories are absolutely fine and are to be welcomed but you must also have firm evidence to back them up.
 
S

ScottyBK

Member
No, I don't think money had anything to do with the night of the sinking. But I do wonder if Stanley Lord would have been better off as say a 2nd officer of the Titanic rather than Captain of some clunker like Californian?

And would say Lightoller have felt more prestigious as captain of a Californian type ship than as 2nd officer of the Titanic ? In other words, would it be more prestigious to be a junior officer on Titanic rather than the "captain" of some crummy slowpoke tramp steamer? Would the Titanic officers really even consider someone like Lord a real "captain" or more like an also-ran who couldn't hack it on a "real" ship? I get the impression that the latter was/is the case. No one seemed to have much respect or use for Lord, including his own crew, and the inquiry boards seem to treat him as some sort of dunce to be scolded like a naughty teenager.
 
Seumas

Seumas

Member
No, I don't think money had anything to do with the night of the sinking. But I do wonder if Stanley Lord would have been better off as say a 2nd officer of the Titanic rather than Captain of some clunker like Californian?

And would say Lightoller have felt more prestigious as captain of a Californian type ship than as 2nd officer of the Titanic ? In other words, would it be more prestigious to be a junior officer on Titanic rather than the "captain" of some crummy slowpoke tramp steamer? Would the Titanic officers really even consider someone like Lord a real "captain" or more like an also-ran who couldn't hack it on a "real" ship? I get the impression that the latter was/is the case. No one seemed to have much respect or use for Lord, including his own crew, and the inquiry boards seem to treat him as some sort of dunce to be scolded like a naughty teenager.
Would the Titanic officers really even consider someone like Lord a real "captain" or more like an also-ran who couldn't hack it on a "real" ship? I get the impression that the latter was/is the case.

I'm sorry Scotty but that's totally untrue. You couldn't be more wrong.

Captains of freighters, the most common steamship on the waves in 1912, had the same nautical training and experience as the officers on the bridge of the big WSL, Cunard, NDL, Hamburg America liners. They all had to sit and pass the same exams. No one was any better than the other.

As other posters have kindly explained on the previous page, many men in the merchant service actually preferred working on smaller vessels. Not every qualified master mariner saw the appeal of passenger liners.

Joseph Boxhall's father had for years captained small cargo ships and he (Boxhall Snr) was a well respected man. Boxhall certainly would have regarded Lord as a "real captain".
 
Last edited:
Sam Brannigan

Sam Brannigan

Member
No, I don't think money had anything to do with the night of the sinking. But I do wonder if Stanley Lord would have been better off as say a 2nd officer of the Titanic rather than Captain of some clunker like Californian?

And would say Lightoller have felt more prestigious as captain of a Californian type ship than as 2nd officer of the Titanic ? In other words, would it be more prestigious to be a junior officer on Titanic rather than the "captain" of some crummy slowpoke tramp steamer? Would the Titanic officers really even consider someone like Lord a real "captain" or more like an also-ran who couldn't hack it on a "real" ship? I get the impression that the latter was/is the case. No one seemed to have much respect or use for Lord, including his own crew, and the inquiry boards seem to treat him as some sort of dunce to be scolded like a naughty teenager.
Further to Seumas' reply, the likes of Chief Officer Wilde could expect to start their command careers in lesser ships; for instance he enjoyed a short spell as captain of the Zeeland, so I can't see any sense of superiority creeping in at that level.

Also, Lord's first command was granted when he was just 28. Who knows how stellar his career might have been but for the Titanic disaster? By way of comparison, James Bisset, second on the Carpathia and just six years younger than Lord only achieved command at the age of 48, and that was just the compartively humdrum Aurania - he went on to a knighthood and became commodore of the Cunard line.
 
Steven Christian

Steven Christian

Member
I don't think there was much jealousy. It's not like he started at the top. They had to have known what it took to get there. Like Arun and some others have stated it wasn't all a bed of roses I'm sure. When I was flying a lot a lot of the younger pilots dreamed of becoming airline pilots flying the heavies. A lot of the older airline pilots dreamed of becoming a crop duster. Cheers.
 
S

ScottyBK

Member
Imagine if say Evans had stayed up a bit later to have another cuppa tea, and happened to hear the very first Titanic CQD, and he runs and tells Capt. Lord, who fires up Californian and heads towards the rockets. Lord arrives on the scene in time to maybe rescue quite a few additional people from the water, or even rig a plank across between the two ships and save almost everyone depending if he got there soon enough.

Given the praise Rostron received for getting there AFTER the sinking, times that praise/love by 1000 for Lord if he'd actually hit the scene BEFORE the ship sank! White Star might have made him the new Commodore and he would suddenly go from a rusty old barge to the "Millionaire's Captain" overnight. Esp. if say he was able to rescue JJ Astor or some of the other millionaires. It would have been like a factory worker hitting the Powerball lottery. He would've grown a beard and gotten a beautiful uniform and ate filet mignon every night for the rest of his life.

Poor Lord must have thought about night that every single day and kicked himself in the b***. I bet he never let his wireless men get a wink of sleep for the rest of his seafaring career. It must've been so hard to watch Rostron made a hero to the upteenth degree, while he was dragged thru the mud and fired. No way was Lord not super jealous of Rostron.
 
Arun Vajpey

Arun Vajpey

Member
Imagine if say Evans had stayed up a bit later to have another cuppa tea, and happened to hear the very first Titanic CQD, and he runs and tells Capt. Lord, who fires up Californian and heads towards the rockets. Lord arrives on the scene in time to maybe rescue quite a few additional people from the water, or even rig a plank across between the two ships and save almost everyone depending if he got there soon enough.
This is getting more than a bit nonsensical speculation.

The first CQD message was sent out after midnight and even if Cyril Evans had picked it up almost immediately and informed Captain Lord, it would have taken the Californian perhaps another 10 minutes at least to be on its way to the intended rescue. It was a 12-knot ship at best but given the conditions, it would have taken them some time to get to that speed. The Titanic and Californian were separated by about 15 miles and there were icebergs around and so it would have been close to 2 am by the time the latter got anywhere close. By then there would have been Titanic's lifeboats all around and that ship itself 20 to 25 minutes away from foundering. Under those conditions, talking about "rigging a plank across the two ships and rescue almost everyone" is something even Mr Bean would not have believed as possible.

At the absolute best, IF Evans and Lord had reacted immediately, they might have rescued 40 to 50 half-frozen people out of the water. Over 1400 people would still have died but Lord and his crew would not have had to face the vilification that they did in the aftermath of the actual disaster.
 
Last edited:
Jason D. Tiller

Jason D. Tiller

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Lord arrives on the scene in time to maybe rescue quite a few additional people from the water, or even rig a plank across between the two ships and save almost everyone depending if he got there soon enough.
That's next to impossible. Getting one's ship close and safely as possible to another vessel is extremely difficult and dangerous, especially when one ship is sinking. The conditions would had to have been absolutely perfect, for something like that to be pulled off. Even then no Captain is in his right mind would endanger his ship and her crew, to attempt that. Plus what makes you think wooden planks would have been available? These are ocean liners, not pirate ships.

Given the praise Rostron received for getting there AFTER the sinking, times that praise/love by 1000 for Lord if he'd actually hit the scene BEFORE the ship sank! White Star might have made him the new Commodore and he would suddenly go from a rusty old barge to the "Millionaire's Captain" overnight.
Arthur Rostron was employed by Cunard, not White Star! He was made Commodore in 1926.
 
S

ScottyBK

Member
That's next to impossible. Getting one's ship close and safely as possible to another vessel is extremely difficult and dangerous, especially when one ship is sinking. The conditions would had to have been absolutely perfect, for something like that to be pulled off. Even then no Captain is in his right mind would endanger his ship and her crew, to attempt that. Plus what makes you think wooden planks would have been available? These are ocean liners, not pirate ships.


Arthur Rostron was employed by Cunard, not White Star! He was made Commodore in 1926.

I know, what I was saying is that Lord would've been such a hero and "hot commodity" that White Star might have offered him the Commodore job as a sort of "reward." Problem is that Lord seemed like a very tough boss, I get the impression his crew were a bit scared of him.

Rostron would get a lot of praise too, but being 2nd on the scene (in this alternate version of history) wouldn't have held a candle to the accolades Lord would've received if he'd gotten there before the sinking and actually rescued people from the water. Lord may have actually been crafty and figured out some way to rescue a LOT of people. After all, Californian was a cargo barge and may have had all sorts of useful stuff on board that could be repurposed for the rescue effort.
 
Seumas

Seumas

Member
I know, what I was saying is that Lord would've been such a hero and "hot commodity" that White Star might have offered him the Commodore job as a sort of "reward." Problem is that Lord seemed like a very tough boss, I get the impression his crew were a bit scared of him.

Rostron would get a lot of praise too, but being 2nd on the scene (in this alternate version of history) wouldn't have held a candle to the accolades Lord would've received if he'd gotten there before the sinking and actually rescued people from the water. Lord may have actually been crafty and figured out some way to rescue a LOT of people. After all, Californian was a cargo barge and may have had all sorts of useful stuff on board that could be repurposed for the rescue effort.
Scotty, you keep posting one error after another .....

Firstly, White Star in 1912 didn't have a post of Commodore, they had discontinued it some years previously and would not revive it until after WW1.

Secondly, the shipping lines that did have a commodore only appointed a highly experienced, long serving captain to that role.

Thirdly, you don't offer a contracted employee of another company a command. Rostron wasn't offered anything (I daresay he probably got a warm letter of thanks from the WSL, but Rostron was a Cunard man and that was that) nor was the often overlooked Captain Moore of Canadian Pacific's Mount Temple who made a valiant effort to get to the scene but was delayed by heavy ice.

Have you only recently become interested in the Titanic ? If so, we collectively would be glad to recommend you some good up to date books to read and websites to visit that will get you clued-up and much better informed as a result.
 
Last edited:
Jason D. Tiller

Jason D. Tiller

Staff member
Moderator
Member
I know, what I was saying is that Lord would've been such a hero and "hot commodity" that White Star might have offered him the Commodore job as a sort of "reward."
Stanley Lord was employed by the Leyland Line, not White Star.

Rostron would get a lot of praise too, but being 2nd on the scene (in this alternate version of history) wouldn't have held a candle to the accolades Lord would've received if he'd gotten there before the sinking and actually rescued people from the water. Lord may have actually been crafty and figured out some way to rescue a LOT of people. After all, Californian was a cargo barge and may have had all sorts of useful stuff on board that could be repurposed for the rescue effort.
We prefer to deal with the facts on here, rather than some alternate history which you seem to be fascinated with. If you're going to discuss Titanic and her story, then stick with what really happened. You'll learn a lot on here if you some read of the threads, instead of attempting to re-write history.
 
Top