John Jacob Astor VI or Aftermath The Posthumous Survivor

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George L. Lorton

Member
I started this thread because there is so little information on J.J. Astor V even though he is technically a Posthumous Titanic Survivor. Sure he wasn't born yet and so wasn't a fare paying passenger but he was on the Ship. The Titanic Sinking also had an effect on him. No Biography on him. No I don't want to do it. I know next to nothing about him but I've always been curious about him and his life since I read that Madeleine Astor was pregnant and expecting only to find herself alone and pregnant though I'm sure she wasn't that alone. Anyways I thought I'd just thought I'd start this thread for folks to share info on him.
 
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Jason Schleisman

Member
Hi George, actually, J.J. Astor's youngest son is named J.J. Astor VI. There was another J.J. Astor born in England (Baron of Hever) between him and his father, so this "in the womb" Titanic survivor is the sixth man in the family to bear the name.

But yes, I agree! There should be a biography here about John Jacob Astor VI.
 
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George L. Lorton

Member
Now you tell me. Darn!
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Could A Moderator please Help! fix the topic heading to read the VI instead of the V. Plus fix my first post in this topic. Thanks Geo.

[Moderator's Note: The thread title has been corrected, but the first message in the thread has not, since that would render the second message meaningless. MAB]
 
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Jason Schleisman

Member
Mark, that's quite alright. If George doesn't mind, you may remove my post #728, as well as this post I am writing now in order for everything to be smooth and correct. I will post something else once everything is correct.
Happy
 
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George L. Lorton

Member
I don't mind at all. Thank you Jason. In fact Mark, you can remove my posts except for the first one as well and just correct the first Post. I'd appreciate it. Thanks again Geo.
Happy
Sorry for all the trouble.
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[Moderator's Note: The requests contained in this message and the one above it have been addressed privately. None of the messages in question will be edited or deleted. MAB]
 
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George L. Lorton

Member
I guess this is what I have work with then. So does anyone have any info to contribute to the John Jacob Astor VI information topic? Any Questions. I saw a photo of young JJ and I think he is a good mix of both parents. I wonder is Vincent had any say over his younger brother's education or did J.J.'s stepfather make all those decisions.
 
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Jason Schleisman

Member
Sorry, George. I tried!

J.J. Astor VI was born on August 14, 1912. Before his father died, he had set up a $3 million dollar trust fund for him, to be inherited at the age of 21. Vincent and J.J. VI did NOT get along very well. Vincent wanted nothing to do with him, as he had never approved his father marrying Madeleine in the first place.

J.J.'s young life was strongly shaped by his mother's amorous dealings with William K. Dick and later Enzo Fiermonte. For more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jacob_Astor_VI

In his later life, he was known as "Jack". When Vincent Astor died in 1959, he left Jack nothing at all.
 
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Mark Baber

Staff member
Moderator
Member
Take a look at Mrs. Astor's bio page for articles about JJA VI published in The New York Times.
 
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Darren Honeycutt

Member
Its easy to understand why Vincent didn't care too much for J.J Astor VI. I might would feel the same way had my father went after such a sweet young thing and doing my mother that way.
 
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George L. Lorton

Member
Thanks Jason And Mark.

Hi Darren,

Well then it was stupid for Vincent to blame an innocent little baby and that baby's Mother for his parents problems. Col. John J. Astor made his own decisions.
It wasn't Madeleine's fault he left his first wife nor her Son, J.J.VI. J.J.VI was Vincent's brother or half brother.
 
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Jason Schleisman

Member
quote:

I might would feel the same way
Oh me too. Vincent and Madeleine were about the same age ~ creepy! I would be appalled at my father were he to do such a thing. Perfect example of mid-life crisis syndrome.

I agree George, that it is NOT fair to "blame the child for the sins of the father", but just the same, if you were Vincent, every time you'd look at #VI, you'd be looking at what happened to your family and be reminded of the unpleasantness of it - not to mention the folly of your father. That's hard to do for a lot of people.

If I were in such a situation, I don't think I'd be all that friendly either. I'd be resentful. Right or wrong, that is how I'd probably feel, and it IS how Vincent felt. I think that I, too, would be happier by having as little to do with J.J.VI as possible.

And it's not as though J.J.VI or "Jack" made himself very likable either. He was very self-absorbed and actually became quite a playboy and womanizer when he grew up. Of course, Vincent did not approve of this.

Vincent was furious with Jack for NOT taking any part in WWII (as he himself had worked for President Roosevelt -a distant relative- as well as for Allied Intelligence), and practically excommunicated Jack for deliberately faking mental illness so as to not be recruited by the Draft Board.

In addition, Vincent was upset with Jack for NOT putting what money he did have to good or charitable use, as he himself actively did.​
 
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George L. Lorton

Member
quote:

Of course, Vincent did not approve of this.

Poor Vincent ,Poor Vincent. My heart bleeds for him, until I think that Vincent kinda dug his own grave in regards to how his brother turned out.
Vincent has no one to blame but himself for the way Jack turned out. If he had been more of a father figure. Who did Jack have to raise him but Mama and Mr.Dick. One was just a stepfather with two boys of his own and Mommy probably spoiled him, "because he doesn't have a father." As I said if Vincent didn't like the way his brother turned out he has no one but himself to blame. Actually Jack kinda sounds like his Pappy the Colonel in personality.​
 
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J. Collins

Member
I actually met John Jacob Astor VI in 1983. My infant son & I were on a train on our way to NYC and we met him on a train. We had a lively conversation, he was a friendly gentleman. My son is a Chanler and is therefore a direct descendant of John Jacob Astor so we had much to discuss. He spoke about his parents and the Titanic quite casually.
 
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