Lady Duff-Gordon

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sashka pozzetti

Guest
I don't know what the other university was, but I didn't go to university at all!!!, which is why the web is so great for getting information. I am always at home, but that doesn't mean I don't learn a lot. The web has changed everything for people like me.
 
Kareen Healey

Kareen Healey

Member
Is someone could be able to provide me the famous article published in the London "Daily News" on April 19, 1912, written by Abraham Merritt in the first person relating the sinking' story of Lucy Duff-Gordon, please ?

For those who do not know anything about that, here's briefly the story : As soon as the Carpathia arrived at New-York, Lady and Lord Duff-Gordon went to supper with some friends, which included Abraham Merritt, reporter of the "New-York American". She told her story and when he came to his place, Merritt called Lady Duff-Gordon and said "Mr Hurst from the "Daily News" just telephoned me, and he wants your statement about Titanic for tomorrow morning. Can I write the story just the same as you have told me?", She said "All right!" and the story has been published on April 19, 1912 and written from the point of view of Lady Duff-Gordon, like she had written it herself.

After that, Lady Duff-Gordon always denied to have participated to that article or even to have been consulted. That is what she said at the Commission. But we know now that she lied upon this article for her Memoirs and some private letters contained some of the facts reported by the article (I'm not the author of those facts, for I've read it in "Alaistair Walker, "Four Thousand Lives Lost the Inquiries of Lord Mersey into the sinking of the Titanic, the Empress of Ireland The Falaba and the Lusitania".)

If someone has that article of April 19, 1912, please tell me that would be so appreciated! Thank you very much!
 
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Aaron_2016

Guest
On a related note. The Iowa newspaper Daily Gate City reported the Duff-Gordons had both drowned in the disaster.


Duff Gordons



Note - Survivor Frank Prentice also believed their boat had tipped over when it was lowered and the occupants were spilt into the water. There must have been a cry or shout from the lifeboat as one end was lowered faster than the other, and when the people on the boat deck overheard the commotion, the rumours began to spread that the boat had tipped over. Perhaps this rumour was one of the reasons why the passengers refused to get into a lifeboat? They thought it was too dangerous to leave the ship after hearing the Duff-Gordon's boat had tipped over?


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Rob Lawes

Rob Lawes

Member
That article is bizarre. Given that Charles Stengel was actually saved in Emergency boat 1 with the Duff-Gordans he couldn't have possibly seen them tossed into the water.
 
M

Mark Baber

Staff member
Moderator
Member
There were lots of articles published right after the sinking, even supposed survivors' eyewitness accounts, that are not consistent with reality. That's why, IMHO, they should be taken with large grains of salt.
 
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Aaron_2016

Guest
That article is bizarre. Given that Charles Stengel was actually saved in Emergency boat 1 with the Duff-Gordans he couldn't have possibly seen them tossed into the water.

Newspapers always make mistakes with names and sources. There was a lengthy story about Hichens but the article kept referring to him as Quartermaster Moody. Easily done as the survivors were surrounded by reporters who no doubt barked out questions over the noise, and names got muddled up. If several of the survivors were interviewed in a group then the reporters might get their wires crossed. e.g. The survivor who said the Duff Gordon's had perished when their boat tipped over was likely not Major Peuchen. He probably included the Major's name when mentioning the occupants of the boat and the reporter mistakenly thought that was his name. Same thing with Hichens. He probably told the reporter he was the man in charge of the wheel and he took orders from Moody. The reporter then scribbled down all of the notes he needed for the article and in the confusion he attributed the story to Quartermaster Moody, the man in charge. These mistakes still happen today. We recently held a ceremony to the sinking of the Princess Victoria. Our local newspaper made several spelling mistakes and showed the wrong ship in the photo. The reporters at the dock were likely under far more pressure to get the story in before anyone else. There were even reports that Captain Smith had survived.



Smith1a


Smith2



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Kareen Healey

Kareen Healey

Member
Hello everyone, thank you very much for information. Nitschke, a special thanks!
It was a big mess in papers on days following the disaster. In fact, I was wondering yesterday, while reading the excellent book "On a Sea Of Glass", when reporters got a proper methodology to write their articles... I'll get the answer when I'll have time -- have some people who could give me the information in journalism at University of Montreal and will ask them if the Titanic's case is taught to enhance journalism' studies. I can provide you answers as soon as I'll have them if you all are interested.

Captain Smith alive... hum... Really rubbish!! I've read something there is few years ago. I've read it rapidly and don't know If I understood it well, but the whole matters was something like Captain Smith had survived until our days, living on an ice floe! And you have people who seem to believe it, as it should have make sense!... At any rate, human being is weird sometimes!

The only place where Smith and Murdoch survived, it is in the novel I'm writing : Downtown Montreal 1933, 2 men -- John and William Smith -- are killed in an apartment. Detectives are called upon but have to request the help of Scotland Yard while inquiry unfold : both men are British and detectives try to unravel what seems to be a world wide conspiracy links with the Titanic' case. Who killed John and William ? Why ? What part played the two men in that conspiracy not foreign to the soon coming World War I ?
That is it, for now.

Thanks for help once again, everyone! :)
 
Kareen Healey

Kareen Healey

Member
By the way, is Randy Bryan Bigham has something to do with Lord Mersey ? (on the article "I was saved from the Titanic" its written "edited by Randy Bryan Bigham" ) I'm curious :)
 
Duquesa

Duquesa

Member
A few months ago, I read something about Lucile and Cosmo Duff Gordon separating years after the shipwreck (although there are comments saying they got closer during the inquiry), since then they ''never'' met for quite a while.

Until then, Lucile had the honor of experiencing the peak of her sales success during the 10's until she went bankrupt during the mid and late 20's.

But what I would really like to know is, did Cosmo also experience financial problems like Lucile? if I'm not mistaken his reputation was already destroyed.
 
Seumas

Seumas

Member
A few months ago, I read something about Lucile and Cosmo Duff Gordon separating years after the shipwreck (although there are comments saying they got closer during the inquiry), since then they ''never'' met for quite a while.

Until then, Lucile had the honor of experiencing the peak of her sales success during the 10's until she went bankrupt during the mid and late 20's.

But what I would really like to know is, did Cosmo also experience financial problems like Lucile? if I'm not mistaken his reputation was already destroyed.
His final updated entry in "Who's Who" lists his properties owned in Kensington, London, England and Maryculter, Kincardineshire, Scotland.

He was also a member of the now defunct Bath Club which was an exclusive London gentleman's club for upper class sportsmen. So I think it's fair to say he still was worth quite a bit when he died.

In the London Gazette I stumbled upon this (apologies if it has been posted before) regarding Lucille Duff-Gordon's company being wound up for good in 1932.


11th March 1932
LUCY DUFF GORDON Limited.
The Companies Act^ 1929.
"!%TOTICE is hereby given pursuant to section
IN 235 (1) of the Companies Act,1929, that a
Meeting of the Members of the above named
Company will be held at the offices of Messrs.
Josolyne, Miles, Page & Co., 77, Welbeck Street,
London, W., Chartered Accountants, on Monday,
the llth April, 1932, at 12 o'clock noon, for the
purpose of having laid before them an account of
the proceedings in the liquidation up to date.
(153) H. A. OLDACRE, Liquidator.


5th July 1932
LUCY DUFF GORDON Ltd.
(In Voluntary Liquidation.)
The Companies Act, 1929.
NOTICE is hereby given that a General Meeting
of the Members of the above named Com-
pany will be held at 77, Welbeck Street, London,
W.I, on Monday, the 22nd day of August, 1932, at
12 o'clock noon, to receive the account of the
Liquidator showing how the winding-up of the
Company has been conducted and its property dis-
posed of, and to hear any explanation that may
be furnished by the Liquidator.
(155) H. A. OLDACRE, Liquidator.
 
Duquesa

Duquesa

Member
His final updated entry in "Who's Who" lists his properties owned in Kensington, London, England and Maryculter, Kincardineshire, Scotland.

He was also a member of the now defunct Bath Club which was an exclusive London gentleman's club for upper class sportsmen. So I think it's fair to say he still was worth quite a bit when he died.

In the London Gazette I stumbled upon this (apologies if it has been posted before) regarding Lucille Duff-Gordon's company being wound up for good in 1932.


11th March 1932



5th July 1932
How interesting! Thanks for posting this, but i find it sad to think that she died in a nursing home and Cosmo in his residence.
Is it impossible to know if at some point he thought of helping her but she refused out of pride?
 
B

Brian Ahern

Member
A few months ago, I read something about Lucile and Cosmo Duff Gordon separating years after the shipwreck (although there are comments saying they got closer during the inquiry), since then they ''never'' met for quite a while.

Until then, Lucile had the honor of experiencing the peak of her sales success during the 10's until she went bankrupt during the mid and late 20's.

But what I would really like to know is, did Cosmo also experience financial problems like Lucile? if I'm not mistaken his reputation was already destroyed.
I believe Maryculter would have passed to Cosmo's nephew, the inheritor of the family title. Cosmo could not have left his family seat to his wife. Legally, he might well have been prevented from doing so, even if he were inclined to buck tradition. I doubt Lady DG would ever have expected it. So many aristocratic families are land-rich but cash-poor. Sir Cosmo obviously had liquid money enough to live "appropriately", but I don't think his funds were ever vast. War and Depression in his later years can't have helped.

According to the biography of Lady DG and her sister, The It Girls, which I read perhaps twenty-five years ago, Sir Cosmo did everything possible to see that his wife was provided for upon his death. He didn't have the resources to leave her rich, but he did what he could. I can't say how reliable that source is.
 
Duquesa

Duquesa

Member
I believe Maryculter would have passed to Cosmo's nephew, the inheritor of the family title. Cosmo could not have left his family seat to his wife. Legally, he might well have been prevented from doing so, even if he were inclined to buck tradition. I doubt Lady DG would ever have expected it. So many aristocratic families are land-rich but cash-poor. Sir Cosmo obviously had liquid money enough to live "appropriately", but I don't think his funds were ever vast. War and Depression in his later years can't have helped.

According to the biography of Lady DG and her sister, The It Girls, which I read perhaps twenty-five years ago, Sir Cosmo did everything possible to see that his wife was provided for upon his death. He didn't have the resources to leave her rich, but he did what he could. I can't say how reliable that source is.
Hi Brian! thank you so much for
answer my question.

I found the information you posted here about Lucile's future very interesting, but i will make a point of reading Lucile's book! Thank you :)
 
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