Legacy of Eric Payne

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Christina DeMohrenschildt

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As a newbie I just started reading some 2002 comments by Eric Payne. A Google search tells me he passed away in 2003.

Does anyone know how to find any of his writings that may have been published between hard covers? Is his stuff on any good web sites?

The name "William Seright" turns up in some posts about Mr. Payne's passing. Can he help us find Mr. Payne's research?

I am under the impression that Mr. Payne didn't suffer enterprising promoters like Robert Ballard gladly. Did that have to do with any religious convictions that Mr. Payne may have revealed? I'm the person who expressed interest yesterday about where Christian doctrine meets Titanic passengers and salvagers.

Thanks for putting up with a newbie. Sorry if I'm ruffling any feathers. If it would be better to drop the topic of Mr. Payne's legacy, can someone second that notion? Maybe the topic is okay. Any input?
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>If it would be better to drop the topic of Mr. Payne's legacy, can someone second that notion?<<

Any of his research would be fair game for discussion and debate. Beware however that this particular name has a lot of baggage that comes with it. I hope you didn't open up too much of a can of worms here.

>>I am under the impression that Mr. Payne didn't suffer enterprising promoters like Robert Ballard gladly.<<

If true, he has a lot of company. I didn't know him, never exchanged a note with him, so I can't really speak to this. If you know of a website or sites where his work is published, it might help the discussion if you posted the URL so everyone knows what's at issue.
 
Mar 18, 2000
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Eric Payne did not post here on ET (that I remember), his main hangout was the Titanic newsgroup.

I do recall William Seright did post a few times there, after Eric died.
 
Mar 20, 2000
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I had never heard of Eric Payne before but I thank Christina for posting that link so that we could learn more about him. He was obviously a courageous person and despite his travail found happiness. I salute him.
 

Dave Gittins

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Mar 16, 2000
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Eric Payne's website appears to have died with him. As I recall, it was quite a good one, though well astern of ET and a few other sites. Outdated links to it are still on some sites.

He used the name Eric Seright Payne if anybody wants to search.
 
Dec 12, 1999
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I vaguely remember seeing his name a few times when I was on the newsgroup...I think I may even have had a semi-convo with him once, though I can't remember exactly. Now, I almost wish I had talked to him more, he seemed pretty interesting. Anyone who can write this: "The simple day-to-day things two drunks in Vegas can get for a hundred bucks and a trip to a bad Elvis impersonator are to be forever denied us"...that's somebody I could have talked to!
 
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Chris Dohany

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Dec 12, 1999
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Eric was also a regular fixture on the Titanic mailing lists. What a character. When he wasn't throwing fuel on the fire in various Titanic-related arguments, I found him to be a rather nice guy.
 
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Christina DeMohrenschildt

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Here's an excerpt from posts made earlier today in another topic.

Topic: "Discovery / Salvage / Exploration ... "

Topic: "If there are any human remains in the wreck ..."

Eric Paddon, a member since June 2002, wrote:

>> The Eric Payne I had the misfortune of being acquainted with in Titanic discussion was a devious and dishonest person who believed in using character assassination and deliberate falsehoods in order to spread his agenda, especially with regard to the salvage issue. In my case he was responsible for impugning my integrity by sending phony e-mails with my name on them to people and then claiming I was harassing people I didn't agree with on salvage to unsubscribe from mailing lists.<<

Wow, that hardly sounds like the Eric Payne who spent most of the four years between 1999 and 2003 in doctors' offices and hospitals. He must have been able to afford an excellent laptop and ISP so that he could cause trouble when he was a few feet away from doctors that charged him a lot of money.

Here's another excerpt from Paddon's take on Payne:

>>That was the Eric Payne I saw, and it is the one thing people like me will never forget or forgive him for, even in death.<<

My response to that: We have enough evidence of Titanic passengers observing their Christian faith to presume that they believed in forgiveness the way the Son of God prescribed it.

Oh, and the Titanic passengers were citizens of a country that says you're innocent until proven guilty. Eric Payne cannot defend himself against Eric Paddon's charges.
 
Jul 29, 2001
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Christina,

If I have this right, the "excerpt from posts" you quote above were in fact posted entirely by yourself - in an attempt to publicise private opinions (by Eric Paddon) communicated to you in a private email.

Eric Paddon has explained this in another thread and I believe he has stated clearly that some aspects of this issue are painful for him.

Further, moderator Michael Standart has clearly warned you against publicising Eric's private communication (You can't claim that they are no longer private - that's only because you have published them - on two separate threads now).

I cannot understand why you have a) ignored Michael's warning and b) potentially caused distress to Eric Paddon by AGAIN publishing this private communication?


Don't you think you owe Eric Paddon and Michael Standart an apology?

bob falange
 
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Eric Paddon

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I have already made clear in the Salvage thread my displeasure with your violating the confidence of a private message by reposting it in a public forum without my consent. That does not speak well of you, nor does it speak well of your attempts to defend Mr. Payne.

On the matter of Mr. Payne's skills as a "researcher" though, my enduring memories of him are as follows.

Let's go back to 1998, when Mr. Payne, in order to justify what for him was a never-ending campagin against RMSTI and salvage in general, took it upon himself to promote the idea that in the 1988 Doug Llewelyan hosted special on the 87 expedition, he charged that crows nest destruction footage caused by Nautile could be seen in the broadcast version only, but not in the subsequent home video release, thus promoting the idea that RMSTI and George Tulloch were covering up evidence of the extent of what their evil salvage operations were doing. Here is an exact quote from a public forum where he made this charge. (This quote was made in a public Titanic forum on June 16, 1999 and unlike the private message of mine you reposted without my consent, is fair game for this board since it touches not on his private life but his research skills)

QUOTE

>George Tulloch's organization did destroy the crow's-nest to retrieve the telephone. The act was filmed by Ralph White, and was shown in the
>full length version of a Doug Llewellyn hosted television special

ENDQUOTE

The amazing thing is that Mr. Payne, when asked repeatedly by me if he would loan a copy of a tape that he said contained this footage, or if he would at least post screen caps on his web page, refused to do so.

Smelling a rat on this subject, I managed to track down my own copy of this special that was personally taped off station WPIX in New York and then compared it to the home video release. Guess what happened? There is no "crows nest destruction footage" in the original broadcast and there is no footage in the broadcast version that didn't end up in the home video version.

Mr. Payne in short, had been caught with his hand in the cookie jar, and when he was confronted with the evidence on this that explained his refusal to share his so-called "destruction video" his response was usually like this (again from a public board), steeped in the art of evasion and dodging. (Here he was challenged by me to produce the video he said existed)

QUOTE

"Well, let's see... first, such a posting would be in violation of copyrighted material. But even if that were not the case... gee, Eric... didn't I TELL you that there are parties currently in
negotiations to purchase the tape? Hmmm? And just who do you think one of those parties may be? C'mon... use your head... since I'm aware of
the tape, who filmed it, what it shows, when it aired, etc. etc.... let's see if you can put two and two together and at least come up with 3.5"

END QUOTE

This was typical of Mr. Payne. He tries to insist that this nonexistent footage exists. Then a year later, after producing no footage, he attempts a new technique, by saying that different markets of the country saw different versions of the broadcast and that in my market, New York City, I saw an "edited" version that had the incriminating footage snipped.

Of course the fact that this is not how the production and airing of television specials works, and never has in the history of television, somehow managed to escape him. Stations are all given the same copy and there are no deviations. No market gets "more" than others. But of course leaving that silly matter aside, Mr. Payne was then trying to push the even more bizarre idea that RMSTI had somehow managed to buy the silence of everyone associated with this expedition (including Ralph White who did not back up his charge that he took such pictures) and kept everyone from talking, and yet they were somehow at some point dumb enough to let incriminating video slip out that lo and behold by a happy coincidence was seen only in markets where people with long track records of hatred for RMSTI happened to live?

Mr. Payne never helped himself or his causes with these techniques and tactics, which could be seen on quite a few occasions on other issues as well (promoting the idea that Charlie Haas had Ballard's stern plaque stolen to spite the Titanic Historical Society was another pet theory of his, along with the peculiar idea that Lordite author Peter Padfield was really Leslie Harrison). Much of what I have seen over the years in the occasionally acrimonious discussion that comes up over topics like salvage can in many ways be traced to the conduct of those like Mr. Payne, and those who looked the other way when it came to his conduct because he supported their agendas.

It is true that there is a wise adage of how it is best not to speak ill of the dead, but if Mr. Payne is to suddenly be looked back upon solely as a person to be praised, then those of us who saw a very ugly side of him up-close can not in good conscience remain silent. But even though I still to this day have a good reason to recount the specifics of what was done by him to me personally, this I will not do in this forum, especially since I have no desire to violate the privacy of those who know the full story as well and needlessly drag them into a discussion without their consent. As Michael has said though, the matter of his public research and his public comments are another thing entirely, and that is all I intend to comment on about him in this or any other public forum.
 
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Christina DeMohrenschildt

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To Mr. Falange,

This posting board automatically E mails to all members a copy of every post that follows a post that they sent.

My post about Eric Payne was one of the first posts I made here after becoming a member
just two days ago.

The next time I checked my E mail I was bombarded by a slew of messages. You would have
to be a supersleuth to notice that the one from Eric Paddon was "private."

That is why I retyped his comments here. They constitute a serious charge against someone who's dead now and didn't have much physical ability when he was alive.

Like Eric Paddon, I promise to drop the subject of Eric Payne here and now. If we can forgive
the human error that killed more than a thousand people, then we can forgive Eric Payne and
let go of whatever he did.
 
Mar 20, 2000
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My post in praise of Eric Payne was made before I knew anything about past flame wars that crippled the old mailing list and for which he was apparently partly responsible. I still think he must have been a courageous soul, privately at least.

I don't agree with Eric Paddon on the subject of salvage but I do agree with him that it is not at all fair for Mr. Payne's disability or difficult domestic life to be used as a way to make a posthumous martyr out of him. Mr. Payne apparently didn't let his problems prevent him from being very active, outspoken and successful, so he doesn't seem to have suffered from being misunderstood or oppressed.

Christina has apologized on the other thread for posting Eric Paddon's personal email, explaining that she mistook it for a message board notification. Moderator Monica Hall said she is prepared to accept the explanation. And I am, too, but I hope we won't be asked to accept any further slips like this. Personally, I also hope we won't see anymore axe-grinding cloaked in Christian ideology. This sort of propaganda doesn't sit well with me at all. I don't think being a Christian has anything to do with being pro- or anti-salvage.

Moreover, for the sake of the privacy of the parties involved, the question of "Eric Payne, Saint or Sinner," ought to be left unanswered on this message board.
 
Jul 9, 2000
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>>This posting board automatically E mails to all members a copy of every post that follows a post that they sent.<<

Christina, you can go into your profile and easily disable the function which e-mails posts. That way, you can avoid any confusion.

•Go to the top of the page, click on "EDIT PROFILE",
•Enter your username and password in the login, then once the page comes up,
•Scroll down to the section marked "E-mail Notification"
•Uncheck all the checked boxes, then
•Click on the "Save Changes" box.

That should solve the problem.
 
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May 8, 2001
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alert.gif
MODERATOR ALERT
alert.gif
Please do an immediate ISP search, and request additional information/identity confirmation on our new member, Ms. DeMohrenschildt before continuing this debate any further!
 
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Christina DeMohrenschildt

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Dear Ms. Collier,

I have pointed out the confusion created by E mail notification of posts. It is what led me to post Eric Paddon's comments. I have since disabled the feature.

My ISP is msnbc.com. Anyone can trace my posts to there.

Don't be frightened. I have already stated my Christian perspective on the lessons of the Titanic.

Mr. Bigham is right when he says, "I don't think being a Christian has anything to do with being pro- or anti-salvage." The Son of God entrusts people with the responsibility of making their own decisions about such an issue.

What do you think, Ms. Collier?

With friendship,

Christina
 

Paul Lee

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Aug 11, 2003
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Eric "The Right Pain" was responsible for me turning my back on Titanicdom in 1997 after a vicious flaming he gave me on the newsgroup. It was about the salvage ethic by the way. He said that George Tulloch had said that the destruction of the crows nest was a "tragic mistake" or a "tragic accident". Yeah, I bet.

By the way, Christina, thats an unusual surname. Are you related to George, who knew Lee Harvey Oswald?

Paul

 
Jun 11, 2000
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Everyone is searching. Christina will not be replying in person, Paul, as for some hours past I have asked for better proof of identification. However, if this is forthcoming, I am sure we will all welcome her back. Until that happens, however, I think everyone should desist from posting about the late Mr. Payne, whatever his/her viewpoint.
 

Eric Paddon

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Jun 4, 2002
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I apologize for resurrecting this old stuff, but I stumbled across this literally by accident this evening while doing a Google search to try and locate an old thread of mine in this place and just happened to come across it and it was something quite unexpected to see. A lot of people who had the misfortune to lock horns with Mr. ESP will find this either amusing (if there's the slightest chance that there is actual truth in it) or extremely pitiful on the part of the gentleman making the posts.

http://www.segwayonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1742

Incidentally, the remark that I was charged with an "online crime" is 100% false. Nothing of the kind has ever happened (the worst offense I've ever had in my life is a traffic ticket). But unfortunately when nasty people say nasty things about you in old message forums, those remarks can end up being there for time immemorial and give a false impression to those doing searches.
 
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