Let's make a complete list of men aboard B


Chris Dohany

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Jan 8, 2001
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My understanding is that Murdoch claimed to have taken to the water and been picked up by collapsible D; however, D is known to have pulled just one man from the water — Frederick Hoyt. There were two unidentified firemen who were part of collapsible D's crew, so if Murdoch was indeed aboard D it would seem he was in it the boat when it left the ship.

Frank Mason has been offered as a candidate for B in the past, possibly due to Thomas Dillon's mention of a "Mason" being among his mates with him on the poop near the end, however it is speculated that this was leading fireman J. Mason, who like the other men named in Dillon's account shared the same watch, rather than the surviving fireman Mason who was on a different watch.

Eustace Snow was thought to have been on B, but since his Board of Trade affidavit surfaced it has been proposed that he was aboard A instead.
 

Dag Bertelsen

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Oct 10, 2010
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I am a grandson of Albert Moss at collapsible B. I am planning to write a book about my grandfather and his experiences as a sailor through nearly 50 years from 1899 until 1946. One of his experiences was the Titanic disaster. I intend to include in the book some words about the subsequent life of the about 30 men probably gathered on this raft. At present, I work with the same list as Chris Dahoney except for Frank Avery and William McIntyre, but including David Livshin, Eustace Snow and Jack Phillips.

My grandfather has told that when he arrived at the raft, he heard the following message: "Phillips, shut him off." The answer was: "I cannot." Then the "second-second mate" (Lightoller) arrived at the opposite side of the raft, the focus was shifted so that Albert managed to climb on to it.

Phillips died apparently during the night, that may well have been the case for more. Thomas Whiteley has told that he took over the space after a corpse skidding down from the raft.

As to Gracie's J. Hagan, I imagine that he might have pretended to be among the men at the raft, but that he in fact was not on board Titanic at all.

Which are your comments to this?
 
J

John O'Malley

Guest
To answer your question, I personally believe that Jack Phillips was on collapsible B. Lightoller and Whiteley both reported this, and Bride claimed to have been told by a crewmember that Phillips had been on the boat. It is my opinion that Phillips body was lowered in the water after he died, and that Lightoller, in the confusion of transferring over to Lifeboat 12, mistook David Livshin for Jack Phillips. I do recall an account from Bride where he mentions seeing a body in Boat 12 that he thought was Phillips. I have never seen a photo of Livshin, but if he looks similar to Phillips as others say, than it could very likely have been Livshin whose body Bride saw, and the fact that he later heard from other crewmen that Phillips died on the boat could have led him to assume that the body was Phillips. In terms of J. Haggan, I believe someone else suggested that the man in question may have actually been James McGann.
I'm sure others with more knowledge on the subject can elaborate on this.

I also have a few questions of my own.

Chris Dohany, if I may ask, what is your source for thinking James Avery, Albert Hebb and John O'Connor were on the overturned boat? Also, do you know where I can find the accounts from Charles Judd, Thomas Dillon and Cecil Fitzpatrick that you refer to.

Also, Dag Bertelsen, I would love more information on your grandfather. Do you know where I can find some?

In addition, does anyone know what the source is for placing Eustace Snow, William McIntyre and Ernest Allen on the boat?

Finally, I've also heard that Eino Lindqvist and Thomas McCormack are candidates for this boat. Can anyone elaborate on this?
 

Dag Bertelsen

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Oct 10, 2010
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An article about my grandfather Albert Moss is presented i Voyage 24 from 1996. Besides, Per Kristian Sebak has written a book on 31 Norwegian Titanic destinies, also published in English. For myself, I have sent a proposal for a short biography for ET, however, yet not published.

For the present, I put off further comments.
 

Dag Bertelsen

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Oct 10, 2010
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Men on collapsible B

I have created four groups of men based on the likelihood that they were on collapsible B. Do you want to move anyone into another group, or include someone else in any of this groups?

Of course, we have to present the documentation for this allocation. Titanic Lifeboat Project gives valuable notes for many of them. For the rest of them we have to bring forward the documentation ourselves.

Almost no doubt (20 men):
Ernest Allen, Crew engine
Algernon Barkworth, First class
Harold Bride, Crew other
John Collins, Crew other
Eugene Daly, Third class
Sidney Daniels, Crew other
Edward Dorking, Third class
Archibald Gracie, First class
Walter Hurst, Crew engine
Charles Joughin, Crew other
Charles Lightoller, Crew other
William Lindsey, Crew engine
Isaac Maynard, Crew other
James McGann, Crew engine
Albert Moss, Third class
Patrick O’Keefe, Third class
Harry Senior, Crew engine
Victor Sunderland, Third class
Jack Thayer, First class
Thomas Whiteley, Crew other

Likely, but maybe not (8 men):
C. William Fitzpatrick, Crew other
Albert Hebb, Crew engine
Charles Judd, Crew engine
David Livshin, Third class
John O’Connor, Crew other
Jack Phillips, Crew other
George Prangnell, Crew engine
Eustace Snow, Crew engine

Possible, but not likely (9 men):
James Avery, Crew engine
Eino Lindquist, Third class
Frank Mason, Crew engine
Thomas McCormack, Third class
Bernhard McCoy, Third class
William McIntyre, Crew engine
William Murdock, Crew engine
Oskar Olsson, Third class
Ernst Persson, Third class

Unlikely, but not impossible (2 men):
William Mellor, Second class
J. Hagan, Crew other

So, let us take them one by one.
 
Mar 27, 2004
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New York State, United States
Curious - Chris Dohany's post from 2008 mentions:

>Mess Steward Cecil Fitzpatrick also gave a detailed interview that indicates he too survived aboard the collapsible.<

Does anyone know exactly where that account could be found? Much appreciated!
 
Mar 18, 2008
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Hi Kent!

Steward Fitzpatrick story was printed in the Western Daily Mercury, dated 29. April 1912. There he said that he got on the overturned lifeboat were Lightoller was. From there he got then in No. 12.
I find his actions and what he saw and hear before getting into the water a little to much of a story. For example he claimed that 2 passengers were shot dead (one at No. 14 the other one at another boat) and a few other strange things.

I am not sure if I somewhere have anything more about him, as I have used that report for an research article a few years ago and show what he possibly really saw at No. 14.
 
Mar 27, 2004
256
12
173
New York State, United States
Ioannis,

Thanks! I just came across this post you left on Saturday!
happy.gif
 
J

John O'Malley

Guest
What does everyone think about the possibility of Robert Daniel being on the boat as well? I have two accounts from him describing this. i have heard some people claim that a woman in Lifeboat 3 said Daniel was in the boat with her, but no one has been able to tell me which woman said that. As far as I am aware, Jack Thayer and Thomas Dillon both said they saw Daniel still on the ship after all the lifeboats had gone (although I haven't been able to find Dillon's account where he mentions this. Is it possibly in the book Titanic Voices?)
 

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