Lifeboat musters

[Charles B. Weeks Jr.]

I was wondering, and maybe it has been discussed and I missed it. I have read numerous comments by Titanic's Officers and some others, that as they loaded the life boats they called for more women and children, and there didn't seem to be any around. Was it possible that they were waiting patiently on A-Deck not the Boat Deck? Could they have been sent by Room Stewards or others to A-Deck, or just been confused as to which deck they should go to? I believe I've read comments by a couple of people about being on A-Deck and seeing others there. Also the group at Boat #4 was sent down to A-Deck to board the boat, and wound up waiting a considerable time for the windows to be opened for them. It seemed like a possible reason why they couldn't find enough to fill some of the boats that were loaded at Boat Deck level.
Regards,
Charlie Weeks

 

[Michael H. Standart]

I seem to recall at least one plan where they decided to do the bulk of the loading from A deck (Which didn't work out too well.) and also to open one of the D-Deck doors to finish loading the boats when they were waterborne. (Which didn't work out at all!) Charlie, if your confused by what you find, imagine what it must have been like for the poasengers looking for guidence and the crew who was trying to make things happen, and the miscommunication everywhere to be seen didn't help. FWIW, I think the biggest problem with the Titanic's "plan" was that they really didn't have a plan to begin with.

Seeing as they tended to work things out as they went, it's no small miricle that they accomplished what they did.

 

[Charles B. Weeks Jr.]

Mike:
I was just wondering if indeed some poor souls might not have been directed to the wrong Embarkation Deck?
Speaking of opening the Side Ports. Have you heard what Boxhall said in his BBC interview on that subject?
Regards,
Charlie Weeks

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>I was just wondering if indeed some poor souls might not have been directed to the wrong Embarkation Deck?<<

I would be greatly surprised if it didn't happen. From my read of the evidence I've seen, it's painfully obvious that they weren't on operating on the same page. The problem here is that it would appear that nobody could quite make up their minds what the "proper" embarkation deck was in the first place.

I regret that I've never heard the whole of the Boxhall interview. Just out of context bits and pieces along with some of Lightoller's recollections.

 

[Charles B. Weeks Jr.]

Mike:
He says that Capt. Smith directed him to take charge of Boat #2. And to row around to the Starb'd Side Port, and load more passengers. When he got around there he saw a mob of people in the side port, so many he was afraid to approach it for fear they'd swamp his boat and sink it.
Regards,
Charlie

 

[Michael H. Standart]

Mmmmmmmmm...saw a mob and got cold feet? Well, can't say as I blame him. I'd have backed off as well. Didn't Boxhall say much the same thing at one of the inquiries?

 

[David Haisman]

Disembarkation from the boat deck level is normal on cargo ships and tankers but on a passenger vessel, most unusual, even for 1912.
The normal procedure is to ensure that the boats crews have clearances for Radial, Wellin and all gravity type davits for running gear, chocks gripes etc. to be kept clear at all times.
If anyone out there has worked these davits on a huge passenger liner or trooper they will know what I'm talking about. With 30, 40 or more people standing by a lifeboat waiting to board, it would be utter chaos and extremely dangerous.
It is also beneficial for passengers to disembark from Prom decks, enclosed decks etc. and through the correct apertures for that purpose i.e. bulwark doors, windows or even shell doors but NOT a boat deck without railings !
Railings are unshipped when boats are being prepared for lowering with that type of gear, if railings exisited at all. Disembarking into a lifeboat from prom decks etc. at this height has a psychological effect on people when boarding from a bowsed -in lifeboat and helps prevent a bit of panic. I reckon they knew that in 1912 too.
With this scenario one has to dismiss the movies as their attempts at this particular evacuation I feel are extremely misleading.
Apparently, many did get into the boats on the boat deck, and I know of some, but why?
Perhaps some out there can offer some suggestions why the crew...... supposedly acted like they did.

David H

 

[monica e. hall]

Hmmm. Speaking as one who would have been in a hobble skirt being told to jump across a gap 70 ft. up on a freezing dark night .....
Looking at the design of the ship, I'd say that nobody had given much thought to evacuation, from the drawing board onwards. I quite take David's point about not wanting passengers milling around and panicking on the boat deck itself, especially with the railings unshipped. But if the intention were to load them from lower decks, then it is not apparent from the plans, since to do that would mean people climbing through windows, or over barriers. Which is ridiculous. There does not seem to be an orderly system of egress underneath each lifeboat's position on the boat deck. It does look to me as though the idea of the boats descending to a safe muster point to collect passengers came later than 1912. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

 

[Michael H. Standart]

>>especially with the railings unshipped.<<

To say nothing of lines and tackle lying about for people to get tangled up in or tripped up by...or worse. You just don't want anyone in the way when you're attempting something like this. I had a chance to work some Welin style davits at the Toledo gathering two years ago and I sure wouldn't want any bystanders around if I was trying to do it with a boat actually in the falls. These things are labour intensive and tricky to work. (And at that, they were still a major improvement on what came befor.)

>>Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?<<

Perhaps not.

 

[Charles B. Weeks Jr.]

David:
I agree with you, having been there on ships with Quadrantal Davits, and also passenger ships even though they had Gravity Davits. You don't need passengers around while you're handling the falls and such. The Gravity Davits were designed to embark at the Prom. Deck level, one below the Boat Deck, through doors, while properly frapped in. The Quadrantal Davits were on a training ship and on a tanker. The ones on the tanker actually had Manilla falls.
Monica, if you go back to Let's Meet, Titanic Symposium, look for Bill Wormstedt's post of 5/22/04, there is a link to the web page he did with the photos from the symposium. Look at the Lifeboat loading research. One of my colleagues stepped from table to table in a long skirt. Each time she crossed we'd pull the tables a bit farther apart. At about 30" she stopped. If you come to the symposium in April 2006 we'll let you try it. Hopefully we'll arrange for you to board an actual lifeboat. A short row around Castine Harbor is fun, you also can better understand what the survivors went through.
Regards,
Charlie Weeks

 

[Bill Wormstedt]

Titanic Symposium stuff.

 

[David Haisman]

Hello Monica,

I don't have plans of Titanic, only a couple of large photo's and draw from that, my experience and how I see the likely scenario.
From what I can make out, there were ample windows beneath each lifeboat which surely would have opened for that purpose and I'm certain that there must have been bulwark doors, not necessarily obvious from prom deck plans.
These would be an important feature for rigging gangways apart from boat drills etc.
With respect, I can't see where ''jumping over barriers'' comes into it quite frankly.
The boarding of lifeboats from ''lower decks'' is not quite the way I would put it, but boarding from the embarkation deck or prom deck would be normal procedure.
Open shell doors are a nuisance when lowering boats and can cause capsize although boarding from a shell door when the boat is in the water is a different matter.
To board a lifeboat when on the embarkation deck, if properly bowsed in with ''handy billies'' leaves no gap whatever for passengers to step over, hence once again, safety when disembarking from the prom deck.
Once again, large passenger ships of that era, built along similar lines, and smaller, would have had a ''safe muster deck'' as you put it, as long as abandon ship instructions were as laid down and properly executed by ship's crews.
That would have applied to all nationalities I would presume.
Several ships I have served on had white sisal or manila falls but the sisal had it's own ''inbuilt warning system '' prior to snapping, letting crews know when mooring etc. to stand well clear. Both types behaved differently in wet conditions due to the amount of oil made up in the lay.
In my humble opinion, there are reasons for some passengers boarding at boat deck level and others at prom deck level but I wont go into that at this time.

David H

 

[monica e. hall]

Good Afternoon David,
Yes I'm sure all you say is quite right. I only meant by my remarks that had one been designing a ship with evacuation in mind, you would have ensured that below each lifeboat station there was an embarkation point that did not involve locked windows having to be opened (that caused a delay on the night), or people having to climb up to clamber through them. But that seems to have been the last thing on the designers' minds. By 'barriers' I meant the railings or whatever that stop you falling off a ship - can't think of the word! And they didn't seem to have the "handy billies" either - didn't Lightoller have to have one foot in the boat and one on the window frame, to help the long-skirted women into the boat. Sounds like improvisation to me. And my point is that, if properly designed for evacuation, such improvisation should not be necessary.

Will try to suggest a date for getting down to Southampton to see you, David, perhaps in the New Year. I have a comparatively 'dead' period at work in between the two semesters in January.

Charles - re the skirt experiment.... are you inviting me to try it out for real? On a cold, dark night, in a lifeboat? Well, I have to tell you, I've done some daft things in my time, so I'd be game if I could only afford the airfare to the symposium! But it's not just the length of the skirt, is it? There's the corset, the long coat, the hat and the shoes/button boots etc. Those women would have been used to this lot, but I think I would find myself almost paralyzed beneath the weight of that much attire, being used to nipping about in sneakers, sweatshirts and comfy jeans. How spoiled we are for comfort, and how desperately unglamorous compared to them.

 

[David Haisman]

Good afternoon Monica,

I shall be giving a lecture on Monday the 17th 0f January at the Roman Catholic Church Hall, Commercial Street, Bitterne, Southampton at 7.30 pm.
Can you make it do you think?

All the best,

David H

 

[Noel F. Jones]

As far as I can ascertain from the photograph on page 125 of The Shipbuilder reprint, the boats themselves provided a protective barrier between the passengers and the sea, supplemented by two short lengths of unshippable rail adjacent to each davit.

The adjacent write-up makes no mention of embarkation arrangements and, by omission, one can only conclude that the intention was to embark from the boat deck itself. An examination of the profile shows no embarkation ports in evidence on the promenade decks and therefore no provision for bowsing them in with tricing lines (handy billies) other than on the boat deck.

Coincidentally (no more than that) there are shell door embarkation ports in way of some of the boats, notably in way of the first class entrance; these would have been equipped with gangway lugs which could have served as nodes for bowsing gear but that would only have been a makeshift arrangement.

In the absence of anything to the contrary one can only conclude that the practice of embarking into lifeboats from promenade decks came later than the Olympics.

Forgive me if some of this has already been covered.

Noel