Dave Gittins
Member
It was possibly caused by the ship being at an angle, or maybe #13 drifted back a little and got under #15.
Could it happen again? Of course it could. Lifeboats are still lowered close together and shipwrecks are often disorganised messes. The sea laughs at theory!
Could it happen again? Of course it could. Lifeboats are still lowered close together and shipwrecks are often disorganised messes. The sea laughs at theory!
Trevor Rommelley
Guest
There was a discussion on this matter on the TRMA board before the thread was lost many years ago. Theres a picture of the Titanic leaving Southampton
- smaller version is here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/myths_legends/england/lancashire/index.shtml
- in a large version, besides the condensor discharge, there are a couple of smaller water vents. Now, I don't recall what these vents were for, but a discussion of how the engines worked indicated that these vents would possibly have been working the night of the collision. There was a sketch showing that, with the list the Titanic possibly had at the time, the bow of lifeboat no.13 would have wound up near the discharge of one of these vents, and this may have forced no.13 backwards down the hull, under no.15. I believe Beesley said something similar in his book.
I don't think the ship being at an angle alone would have been the sole reason for no.13 to wind up under no.15. The falls would have been parallel as the boats were lowered.
- smaller version is here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/myths_legends/england/lancashire/index.shtml
- in a large version, besides the condensor discharge, there are a couple of smaller water vents. Now, I don't recall what these vents were for, but a discussion of how the engines worked indicated that these vents would possibly have been working the night of the collision. There was a sketch showing that, with the list the Titanic possibly had at the time, the bow of lifeboat no.13 would have wound up near the discharge of one of these vents, and this may have forced no.13 backwards down the hull, under no.15. I believe Beesley said something similar in his book.
I don't think the ship being at an angle alone would have been the sole reason for no.13 to wind up under no.15. The falls would have been parallel as the boats were lowered.
Bill Wormstedt
Member
One possible reason for this mishap was a lack of control by the officers.
According to Beesley, an officer, who he thought was Murdoch, ordered 13 and 15 to be lowered, but immediately left that portion of the deck. According to Lookout Lee, an unknown person was supervising the loading down on A Deck, probably the 5th or 6th officer. Since we know Lowe had been busy over to the port side, it could have been Moody doing this.
As said above, the pump discharge caused 13 to float backwards, right under 15. Lack of enough supervision from above, being the lowering was done on the Boat Deck, but the officer on A Deck (probably Moody) could easily cause 15 to lower before it was known things were clear below it.
According to Beesley, an officer, who he thought was Murdoch, ordered 13 and 15 to be lowered, but immediately left that portion of the deck. According to Lookout Lee, an unknown person was supervising the loading down on A Deck, probably the 5th or 6th officer. Since we know Lowe had been busy over to the port side, it could have been Moody doing this.
As said above, the pump discharge caused 13 to float backwards, right under 15. Lack of enough supervision from above, being the lowering was done on the Boat Deck, but the officer on A Deck (probably Moody) could easily cause 15 to lower before it was known things were clear below it.
>>Could it happen again? Of course it could<<
Dave Sir.Life boats on todays ships are located near the sea,infact a close distance to the sea.
I just can't see this mishap happening again?
>>One possible reason for this mishap was a lack of conrol by the officers<<
And this was caused by having no life boat drill?
Dave Sir.Life boats on todays ships are located near the sea,infact a close distance to the sea.
I just can't see this mishap happening again?
>>One possible reason for this mishap was a lack of conrol by the officers<<
And this was caused by having no life boat drill?
Samuel Halpern
Member
>>I just can't see this mishap happening again?<<
I can envision much worse. Titanic was a relatively stable platform for more than 2 1/2 hours. Not so in many other ships in a damaged condition. Good example is Andrea Doria in 1956. Half her lifeboats were unusable. As Dave said, shipwrecks are often disorganised messes.
I can envision much worse. Titanic was a relatively stable platform for more than 2 1/2 hours. Not so in many other ships in a damaged condition. Good example is Andrea Doria in 1956. Half her lifeboats were unusable. As Dave said, shipwrecks are often disorganised messes.
Tad G. Fitch
Member
I agree with what Sam said. I believe many of the Britannic's lifeboats were similarly unusable, due to the heavy list, continuing forward motion of the ship, and rapid rate of flooding when compared to Titanic. In many ways, and this will probably sound odd, but the Titanic disaster could have been far worse. Imagine the what ifs, such as the Carpathia not receiving the distress call, the ocean not being calm, the possibility that the ship could have listed more heavily than it did, sank in less than an hour, etc. As things were, the evacuation was reasonably orderly until the later stages of the sinking, and was about as good as could be expected given the context and circumstances as they were. The loss of life could have been significantly higher, and we would be talking about far less that 700+ survivors.
Take care,
Tad
Take care,
Tad
Trevor Rommelley
Guest
The Wilhelm Gustoff had a huge list making half the lifeboats unusable, and we all know the horrendous loss of life on that ship.
Never say never!
Myself quote-
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>>Life boats on todays ships are located near the sea,infact a close distance to the sea.
I just can't see this mishap happening again? <<
Fella's. What i meant by that is, Modern ships today and the 90's ships, i was not talking about ships in Titanic's time or the 50's. If you take notice of the ships today, all there life boats and life rafts are near the sea, so the life boats and rafts take a shorter amount of time to reach the sea and save time.
Have any one of you fella's took any notice of where the life boats are place?
When you think about where the life boats and rafts are place now, it all makes sence. Hardly no chance for a life boat or raft to be stuck under another life boat or raft.
Do you understand me now? or have i gotten all of you confussed?
.
>>Life boats on todays ships are located near the sea,infact a close distance to the sea.
I just can't see this mishap happening again? <<
Fella's. What i meant by that is, Modern ships today and the 90's ships, i was not talking about ships in Titanic's time or the 50's. If you take notice of the ships today, all there life boats and life rafts are near the sea, so the life boats and rafts take a shorter amount of time to reach the sea and save time.
Have any one of you fella's took any notice of where the life boats are place?
When you think about where the life boats and rafts are place now, it all makes sence. Hardly no chance for a life boat or raft to be stuck under another life boat or raft.
Do you understand me now? or have i gotten all of you confussed?
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>Have any one of you fella's took any notice of where the life boats are place?<<
Yes I have and I can still see much worse happening. The boats being closer to the sea don't make the difference you think it does. If the ship takes a signifigent list, the problem will be getting half of the boats to go down the side...over the hull...to get it down to the water. If the list is greater then what the davits and boats are designed to deal with, then half of what you have won't be going anywhere.
Yes I have and I can still see much worse happening. The boats being closer to the sea don't make the difference you think it does. If the ship takes a signifigent list, the problem will be getting half of the boats to go down the side...over the hull...to get it down to the water. If the list is greater then what the davits and boats are designed to deal with, then half of what you have won't be going anywhere.
Michael Sir. well yes true about the list can cause problems.Technolghy today is lot faster to deploy lifeboats in to the sea,and passenger's are located to there own lifeboat even before the ship leaves port.Plus today crew member's are well train to do the job, plus there is life boat drills so the crew is well prepare for the worst.Titanic had only a little list,but the crew had to do manually deployment of the lifeboats.The list was not the problem,it was the life boats deployment that was the problem,it was to slow.
Michael H. Standart
Member
>>well yes true about the list can cause problems.<<
It can do worse then that. A list can slow things down, or if it's bad enough, stop the show dead cold in it's tracks.
Don't get too cozy with technical advances. They're not quite the cure-all you might think, and there are some very severe limitations as to what can be achieved when most of your boats are arranged along the ship's side. If the slope of the listing hull is too great, that boat is going nowhere.
It can do worse then that. A list can slow things down, or if it's bad enough, stop the show dead cold in it's tracks.
Don't get too cozy with technical advances. They're not quite the cure-all you might think, and there are some very severe limitations as to what can be achieved when most of your boats are arranged along the ship's side. If the slope of the listing hull is too great, that boat is going nowhere.
>>Don't get too cozy with technical advances. They're not quite the cure-all you might think, and there are some very severe limitations as to what can be achieved when most of your boats are arranged along the ship's side. If the slope of the listing hull is too great, that boat is going nowhere.<<
That's true. Anything man made is never perfect, even if it's built in modern days.Still today 's technolghy can help against list but can't prevent it happenning.
That's true. Anything man made is never perfect, even if it's built in modern days.Still today 's technolghy can help against list but can't prevent it happenning.
Samuel Halpern
Member
YES.
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